q877ss from sb

I'm tight (and proud of it) so i just fold these pre, even if it only costs 1bb. Everything in this hand is mediocre at best and they're allways really difficult to play post-flop. At least with my skills.

When you have decided to play this kind of hand, you kinda promote your FD's to be worth of drawing. With BD-draws i think you can call the flop. Beside that additional equity, there's allways a chance that villain will check some turns behind and you get a free card.

On the turn you have very little showdown value and very little if any FE so i would just call.

And i swear that i knew the villains hand even without peeking the spoiler. In micro PLO that pattern (pot flop, half a pot when turn is somewhat scary) is like a neon sign in the desert..

even against a set of kings with no other draws on this turn my equity was 42.5%. seems pretty close even if my fe adds another 8% to my hand, im winning 52.5% of the time so i think its a semi profitable shove here dont you?

Sure you have good equity against villains range, no question about it.
But there are few things what i'm thinking:

-With what made hand you would c-c flop and take a chance that villain will check turn behind? I can only imagine something like K9xx with FD and that's really narrow range. This affects directly to your FE.

-Is villain capable of folding AAxx (or maybe sometimes good Kxxx)? In PLO2 i wouldn't count on that, but if you have reads about villain and you know that he doesn't understand that first point, then check-raising adds nice amount of FE so you can do it.

-But on the other hand, if we know that villain can fold AAxx/(Kxxx) with no draws, do we want to make him fold and only continue AAxx/Kxxx with draws when they are very often better than yours?

-Because the odds to call are there, why not let him continue with 100% of his range and take some value when you hit and save rest of the stack when you don't?

But yeah, since i don't believe that much in FE in PLO2 and because imo villain gives so much information about his hand with betsizes, i would just call.

I'd probably fold this one pre but if not I would've donkbet the flop and pot the turn and shuv all rivers

why donkbet the flop? why not just c/c? i still dont understand why people even donkbet anyways...is it really that profitable to make these types of bets? like for example wat happens whn u donkbet and he pots it>? do you call and continue the hand, or do you just fold and not ever get to see the turn card?

Originally posted by ilovemagic
why donkbet the flop? why not just c/c? i still dont understand why people even donkbet anyways...is it really that profitable to make these types of bets? like for example wat happens whn u donkbet and he pots it>? do you call and continue the hand, or do you just fold and not ever get to see the turn card?

The idea of donking on this flop is that we sometimes make people fold, sometimes we hit some good turn cards and we'll be able to fire out that 2nd barrell and then make people fold. And ofc sometimes we do hit the flush and start praying that it's enough in showdown.

Donking is definitely an option here, but imo this is just too weak hand to do that vs 2 players. If we get call or two, we can't comfortably bet for value even if we hit the flush. That's why i would like to keep the pot as small as possible.

In heads-up pot donking could easily be my choice of weapon.

If we donk this flop vs 2 players, i think that we should fold if get raised?

If you don't do donking in PLO, it's definitely a leak in your game. Of course in microPLO when we are very often in multiway pots, it's pretty clear what/when we donk, but in heads-up pots it's really great way to mix things up. Especially in micros where average player doesn't have a clue what people donk with, it's good way to drive them to the road of mistakes. Because of that multiway "problem" i've been way too lazy to study about donking. But in last few weeks i've looked it up much more closely.

i think i donk like less then 1% of the time...why? im afraid to get them to fold if i have a better hand, and afraid theyll call/raise me if they are stronger then me. also, the average player at plo2 i think would play abc against donk bets. i much prefer the check/call flop check/ raise on the turn with strong made hands, and even some combo draws that give us 15 outs or more.

as far as donking with really weak hands, weak draws, i just dont understand why i would want to put myself in that position to play a bigger then normal pot with low equity in the hand.. i would much rather just check fold these things.

the exception is players who rarely cbet the flop. if happen to get in a pot with them oop, we can certainly donk at them with shit in hopes they will just fold out all their air and weak made hands.

thats just my 2 cents about donk betting. i cant seem to find any videos on youtube worth mentioning about donkbetting. theres one but its holdem which is way different then omaha. pokerstrategy please make a coaching or video focusing on donk bets

Originally posted by ilovemagic
why donkbet the flop? why not just c/c? i still dont understand why people even donkbet anyways...is it really that profitable to make these types of bets? like for example wat happens whn u donkbet and he pots it>? do you call and continue the hand, or do you just fold and not ever get to see the turn card?

You don't want to check/call with a draw that might not even be the best hand even if you hit. If you want to crush the micro's you should play aggressive! you will also lose alot of value in the long run when you check/call all your draws.
Donkbetting is in general underrated and it's a great way to exploit people!

Fold pre. Horrible hand to be playing OOP, always in tough spots and barely ever drawing to the nuts