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nl100 jj

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sandraardnas
Joined: 11.01.2012

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $102 (102 bb)
BB: $123.72 (123.7 bb)
UTG: $113.49 (113.5 bb)
MP: $40 (40 bb)
Hero (CO): $110.03 (110 bb)
BTN: $100 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J J
UTG raises to $3, MP folds, Hero calls $3, 2 folds, BB calls $2

Flop: ($9.50) 3 7 2 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $5.50, BB folds, UTG calls $5.50

Turn: ($20.50) 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $14, UTG calls $14

River: ($48.50) 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $32.50, UTG raises to $90.99 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results:

Spoiler

$113.50 pot ($2.80 rake)
Final Board: 3 7 2 5 2
UTG mucked and won $110.70 ($55.70 net)
Hero mucked J J and lost (-$55 net)

Hi, his x/f is 51%, cb 3way is 62%.
X/c, x/c is 44%, same for x/c, x/c, x/f.
W$ when river x/r is 7/9.
W$ when river raise is 10/15.

Mp was a fish, so maybe his range is a little bit wider.

So on flop I chose sizing to let him quite comfortable x/c trice with worse, do you think it would be fine to bet pot 3 times and shove river with set or bluff?

On the river I think his range is 7x, maybe A3/A2 of diamonds and sometimes overpair, also 55 are possible or maybe even flopped set from time to time.

While playing I was thinking that he has mostly good shd value, so he wouldnt bluff here esp when he has so big w$.
I also thought he cb.

Now Im not so sure, him checking flop and 2 that came on the river drasticly reduces combos of sets. He looks very agro, so he might shove here with 76 or some A3.


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13 replies
mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

VPIP PFR are nitty
WWSF is 51% which is aggro I suppose, but not super out of line. Might also be a function of his tight PF range (stronger range = win more often)

his line makes no sense IMO, high cbet should mean that he bets all his sets. I'm honestly not giving him too much credit for having something.

If you take this line with sets+ you can probably fold JJ here since it's at the bottom of your range. but if you are betting larger with boats/sets then there might be some problems (being exploitable vs check-jams)

river raise vs cbet is 24%, and sample is small and that stat isn't directly correlated but it feels like he would be the type who turns hands into bluffs. I would lean towards calling.


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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

I also think that he turns hands into bluff on river, because he raises 14% flop, turn 9%, which means his river range should consist very few strong hands, meaning that he is bluff heavy on river.

Anyway, is river bet thin? Imo we have moslty best hand on river, but what is calling? I think with his cbet stat he cbets overpairs. He could sometimes slowplay sets because board is dry. So I think if we bet it should be max 33% pot size or even smaller?


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

River is a pretty clear bet because we have to heavily discount better hands when he checks the Flop. I think he will have plenty of 7X/88-TT that can call down

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 3c7d2s5d2c
Equity Win Tie
MP2 71.67% 70.00% 1.67% { JhJs }
MP3 28.33% 26.67% 1.67% { JJ-99, 55, QdQh, QdQs, QhQs, QdQc, A7s, 97s, 87s, Ad2d }

Gave him 3 set combos and 4 overpair combos, also discounted TT/99 to some extent and we have ~72% which would be a 33% pot size bet. Though I think this estimate is pretty conservative, so somewhere between 33-50% pot size is reasonable


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sandraardnas Topic starter
sandraardnas
Joined: 11.01.2012

we have ~72% which would be a 33% pot size bet.

Hey, what do you mean by that?
Is there some equation which shows how much we should bet depending on his equity?
Do you think bluffing like that is profitable in this spot?


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

Originally posted by sandraardnas

we have ~72% which would be a 33% pot size bet.

Hey, what do you mean by that?
Is there some equation which shows how much we should bet depending on his equity?
Do you think bluffing like that is profitable in this spot?

I have my own table for that.

I can't rmb the equation but the principle behind this is that
-Villain's calling range will vary based on your bet size
-Amount of value you get is based on
% of worse hands which call X Bet size - % of better hands which call/raise

Optimal bet size formula on the river is the only thing in poker which uses calculus (differentiation). You do the dy/dx = 0 thing to find the maximum point on the graph

It's in MOP


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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

Is 72% equity vs villian range on river or his defend vs bet on river range? I guess 1st one.

Can you please paste your table here for different equity categories?


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Kooort
Joined: 15.08.2006

Originally posted by GingerKid
Is 72% equity vs villian range on river or his defend vs bet on river range? I guess 1st one.

Can you please paste your table here for different equity categories?

That would be great!


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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

Originally posted by Kooort

Originally posted by GingerKid
Is 72% equity vs villian range on river or his defend vs bet on river range? I guess 1st one.

Can you please paste your table here for different equity categories?

That would be great!

No answer after one month, probably the answer is worth of gold :)


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

If I recall correctly,

Pot size = 85%
Halfpot = 77%
Infinity = Nuts

If u have less than 70% you should probably check


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bulldozzer7
Joined: 07.11.2010

if u have less than 70% against the calling range you should check??


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

Originally posted by bulldozzer7
if u have less than 70% against the calling range you should check??

equity vs total range, not calling range
for calling range u just need >50%
your bet size affects his calling range since he would probably be defending ~1-A%, if he has mostly bluff catchers vs your polarized range


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bulldozzer7
Joined: 07.11.2010

aah so if we do not have >70% against his overall range we cannnot valuebet since we do not have >50% against the 1-A calling range
right?


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

something like that, with a 70% equity edge you can still bet but you have to bet under half pot. And if it's in the 60s, you would need to bet really small, which probably means that a check is better.


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