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Originally posted by SirPaulius
11/8
Deadline was last Sunday. 
This is getting interesting. 1/5 done, and green line is awesome. Yellow line is not so awesome.
Spoiler
In latest session opponents just crushed me with backdoors and flopped goodies vs. almost equal goodies. You all know the feeling when opponents just hit sets in 3bet pots when cold calling you preflop with JJ94. Or conjuring backdoor straight when making a call down on J99 flop with AQQ5 when you have a 9.
On the other hand I have run 20 buyins over EV so complaining about luck would be hypocritical. 
I really hope that the yellow line will rise too in the next 15K hands. Would be quite shocking to have a 20K hands graph where EV is breakeven and winnings are 80 buyins.
Running at 42/-4
#sickrun
Spoiler
I can really relate to people who say that it's impossible to put people on ranges a PLO2. I have seen 6543 calling a cbet in 3bet pot on AAJ flop (checking turn and river), I have seen a call to raise on the turn and call for pot sized bet on the river when turn flushed the board with just overpair (blocker bluffs in PLO2, lol!) and I have seen a calldown to J99 flop with bare TT.
One thing hit me today. I talked about PLO with a person whom is starting to learn PLO. He said that so far he has played PLO like Holdem. I am pretty sure that there are a lot of that kind of players in PLO2, as so many are willing to shove JJxx preflop and make insane calls with dry overpairs. Some of them doesn't even know the rules as they are drawing to a flush with just one card of that suit or instacalling a big bet on the turn and river with Txxx on TKKKx board. Slowplaying the nuts is also a HUGE trend at PLO2. That is probably the hardest thing to adapt to, as it is so automatic for me to assume that if someone check-calls flop and turn on wet board he doesn't have a set.
My winrate would go skyhigh (in EV too!) if I just could remember few simple rules:
- Valuebet a ton
- Barrell turns a ton
- When called on the turn, be cautious!
- When raised, give respect!
- Big river donks, give respect!
Normally River play is one of my strong skills. Against most opponents I can find illogical bets and bluff catch those with good success rate. Now at PLO2 I struggle to get my River Call Efficiency up. It is at 1,32 which is BAD in PLO2. I often think "that's a good card for him to bluff, and he is only representing a backdoor draw/slowplayed hand in really bad spot to do it. Doesn't make sense". But it makes sense, people do slowplay horribly. And people call flops with really wide range, so they hit backdoor draws on the turn more often. And as they like to call with those too, they hit them quite often (compared to higher stakes). It's REALLY important to remember that most of the $$$ comes on the flop, some $$ comes on the turn, and only a tiny portion comes on the river. So valuebet the ¤%#¤ out of them on the flop and turn, and play cautiously on the river.
Today I managed to get EV profits too, so it was remarkable. Running at 51/1.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
Hero (BTN): 428.5 BB
SB: 110 BB (VPIP: 20.27, PFR: 10.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 155)
BB: 69.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
UTG: 141.5 BB (VPIP: 16.42, PFR: 10.29, 3Bet Preflop: 1.79, Hands: 418)
MP: 131 BB (VPIP: 23.89, PFR: 16.81, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 115)
CO: 452.5 BB (VPIP: 24.29, PFR: 20.71, 3Bet Preflop: 11.63, Hands: 145)SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4♥ J♥ J♠ 6♥
fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold
Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) J♦ 9♣ 3♦
CO bets 7.5 BB, Hero raises to 16 BB, CO raises to 55.5 BB, Hero raises to 174 BB, CO raises to 449.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 251.5 BB and is all-inTurn: (858.5 BB, 2 players) A♥
River: (858.5 BB, 2 players) 5♣
CO shows T♦ Q♣ K♦ 8♣ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 56%, Flop 57%, Turn 50%)
Hero shows 4♥ J♥ J♠ 6♥ (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 44%, Flop 43%, Turn 50%)
Hero wins 843.5 BB
The Artist Formerly Known as PokerStrategy.com's Online Editor
This is my blog. Good, innit?
Seems i was right on the money with my EV prediction... Who knew you'd god mode so hard tho ♠
Haha, I got 14K hands to boost my EV winrate. So hold your horse!
Halfway approaching!
Spoiler
PLO2z is a funny place. When you check to people on the river, they bet-fold a ton. Of course the problem is that if you check with value hands, they check behind a lot of hands that they would call you with. I haven't been able to find a good midway, as I find myself being hammered on the rivers. When I valuebet, people call fold a lot. When I bluff, they call with bad bluff catchers. When I check-raise, they often fold. But if I check-call, they beat me most of the times.
I know that the above is not right, it's just biased memory. And I have been called with some "interesting" hands. I even bluffed river with Ace high, and was quite amazed when opponent snapcalled and I won the pot. He has worse Ace high, and he called with 3 diamonds in hand (2 on the board). Who needs rules anyway?
River call efficiency is going even more down. In the last 1K hands or so I just stopped bluff catching, unless the opponent was really aggressive one. Even the "regs" just don't bluff at rivers. Quite common situation is that I define the range according to normal type of play, and then on the river I think that the opponent represents something he shouldn't have. But in PLO2z they can have! One player check-called with flopped nut straight all the way down. Flopped nuts check-call flop, check turn and then bet the river all the time. Just have to give a lot of credit when someone bets the river.
Running 39/5.
Rake paid 18bb/100.
Halfway approaching even more!
Spoiler
Running at 44/17.
Can you see why river call was really easy?
PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
BTN: 212.5 BB (VPIP: 9.09, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
SB: 124 BB (VPIP: 27.50, PFR: 7.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 123)
Hero (BB): 230.5 BB
UTG: 368.5 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
MP: 105 BB (VPIP: 26.00, PFR: 14.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 51)
CO: 215.5 BB (VPIP: 13.73, PFR: 7.84, 3Bet Preflop: 8.00, Hands: 52)
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2♦ 8♦ 6♠ 5♠
fold, fold, CO raises to 3.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, CO calls 7.5 BB
Flop: (22.5 BB, 2 players) 6♥ 8♠ 4♠
Hero bets 16 BB, CO calls 16 BB
Turn: (54.5 BB, 2 players) A♥
Hero bets 39 BB, CO calls 39 BB
River: (132.5 BB, 2 players) K♣
Hero checks, CO bets 70.5 BB, Hero calls 70.5 BB
CO shows 2♠ K♠ 3♥ Q♥ (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 54%, Flop 40%, Turn 40%)
Hero shows 2♦ 8♦ 6♠ 5♠ (Two Pair, Eights and Sixes)
(Pre 46%, Flop 60%, Turn 60%)
Hero wins 264.5 BB
Long time without an update. Project was on a pause for a moment, but now I am back at the tables. Going to finish this week. Here are the contestants:
darv8 12/16
MJPerry 19/26
GoOnCal1 15/17
confidant91 2/4
ocramr86 8/10
Alexburg 30/20
ihufa 2/5
Urvutiburvu 12/12
SvenBe 7/6
SDK1987 11/7
FlyingDutchm1n 10/8
ImpasX 10/15
M1rCea 6/11
WhiteWalker 10/5
Skodljivec -2/-2
Winner is determined by the deviation from the actual number. If you winrate misses actual winrate by 5, you get 5 points. The one with fewest points is the winner. If more than one ends up with the same points, the one who guessed EV winrate closer is the winner.
Sometimes I end up giving a lot of value for my opponents as their line isn't logical in terms of "standard PLO". In PLO2 people overplay hands horribly and then slowplay horribly. Like when opponent limp-calls preflop, and then on A97ss flop just calls, turn is blank and just calls, and pairing river calls when I decide to bluff (as all draws miss) and shows AAds. Today I ended up calling shoving the river when opponent called 973ss flop and donked for a pot to T turn. River was another T, giving me a flush. I thought that turn donk was straight, but it was TT97.
Bad bad day. Managed to run bad in deep spots and ended the day in 10bin drop down. Quite often I managed to get most of the stack in with better hand and then opponent sucked out. It happens, and when they don't suckout the graph goes sky high. So it was kind of a good day as I hit really strong a lot of times, but just didn't realize that equity today.
After 15K hands the magical numbers are 30/12. As normal swing to either way can change the numbers a lot, who knows what they will be after the next 5K hands?
Spoiler
Here is a funny hand where bluff became a solid valuebet. I was quite amazed when the pot moved to my way:
BTN: 31.5 BB (VPIP: 22.55, PFR: 14.96, 3Bet Preflop: 1.72, Hands: 1,894)
SB: 302 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 149 BB (VPIP: 27.21, PFR: 18.58, 3Bet Preflop: 8.11, Hands: 463)
MP: 101 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
CO: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 17.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T♦ 9♦ K♥ 6♥
fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero checks
Flop: (2 BB, 2 players) 7♠ A♠ 7♣
SB bets 2 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, SB calls 3 BB
Turn: (12 BB, 2 players) Q♣
SB checks, Hero checks
River: (12 BB, 2 players) 8♦
SB checks, Hero checks
SB shows K♠ 4♥ 5♠ 9♥ (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 36%, Flop 54%, Turn 36%)
Hero shows T♦ 9♦ K♥ 6♥ (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 64%, Flop 46%, Turn 64%)
Hero wins 11.5 BB
Finally done!
Final numbers were 27/12.
Last session was pretty awful, managed to run 4 times against quads with nut fullhouse, everytime about 200bb deep. Here are couple of fun hands:
This is pretty much the reason why bluffing in general might not work at micros. He called my flop raise with... um... maybe some backdoor straight draw on paired and flush draw board?
BTN: 31.5 BB (VPIP: 22.55, PFR: 14.96, 3Bet Preflop: 1.72, Hands: 1,894)
SB: 302 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 149 BB (VPIP: 27.21, PFR: 18.58, 3Bet Preflop: 8.11, Hands: 463)
MP: 101 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
CO: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 17.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T♦ 9♦ K♥ 6♥
fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero checks
Flop: (2 BB, 2 players) 7♠ A♠ 7♣
SB bets 2 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, SB calls 3 BB
Turn: (12 BB, 2 players) Q♣
SB checks, Hero checks
River: (12 BB, 2 players) 8♦
SB checks, Hero checks
SB shows K♠ 4♥ 5♠ 9♥ (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 35%, Flop 54%, Turn 36%)
Hero shows T♦ 9♦ K♥ 6♥ (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 65%, Flop 46%, Turn 64%)
Hero wins 11.5 BB
Example number two why bluffing might not work at micros. You would think that you have folding equity against middle pair on the river...
Hero (BTN): 181.5 BB
SB: 106.5 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
BB: 279.5 BB (VPIP: 41.34, PFR: 22.76, 3Bet Preflop: 6.04, Hands: 491)
UTG: 129.5 BB (VPIP: 17.84, PFR: 10.01, 3Bet Preflop: 1.56, Hands: 1,317)
MP: 96 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 11.43, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 35)
CO: 99.5 BB (VPIP: 54.55, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9♥ J♣ A♦ T♣
fold, fold, CO raises to 3.5 BB, Hero calls 3.5 BB, fold, BB calls 2.5 BB
Flop: (11 BB, 3 players) 2♠ 5♠ 8♣
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets 7 BB, BB calls 7 BB, CO calls 7 BB
Turn: (32 BB, 3 players) Q♥
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets 31 BB, fold, CO calls 31 BB
River: (94 BB, 2 players) K♦
CO checks, Hero bets 68 BB, CO calls 58 BB and is all-in
Hero shows 9♥ J♣ A♦ T♣ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 52%, Flop 23%, Turn 14%)
CO shows T♦ J♦ 8♠ A♥ (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 48%, Flop 77%, Turn 86%)
CO wins 203 BB
With my math I managed to get 11 points for Alexburg. In case I didn't miss anything, he is the winner! Feel free to holla me in Skype so we can arrange the coaching!
He kyyberi,
everything went better than expected, right?
Can you tell us also how much you beat the game in total, including rake?
What is also interesting - imagine i want to try PLO2, PLO5 or PLO10 - which 3 or 5 quick tips would give me a head start over the competition?
Actually it went worse than I expected, as EV winrate was "just" 12bb. Can't say I played my best all the time, as I fell into the trap of "Fuck that donkey! It's only couple of bucks!" few times. So I slightly overplayed some spots as they got under my skin.
Best tip for PLO2 is to play small ball until you hit, meaning that you play tightish range, and make big turn and river bets only for value. But when you do hit something and valuebet, make it big.