BB vs 4Bet Preflop range?

What's thr difference betwe light and dark blue?

light is a call, dark blue mixed between call and 3bet

I might jam as a 5 bet bluff for 100 BB. I don't like flatting 4 bets OOP with hands such as AQ. If you miss the flop, you'll end up in check/folding or floating just to check/fold most turns. If you flop Axx and villain actually has a value hand, you might be up against AA or AK fairly often. If you flop Qxx, you also don't know where you're at. Villain could easily have QQ+. So there is never a flop that you will really like.

To me, it just seems like a spot where he would 4 bet bluff with many Ax hands. 5 bet jamming with hands like 99-TT and AQs is, I think, fine. But you'll definitely need a sample versus villain and if possible, some reads.

However, I'm not sure about this. This is an interesting spot imo. So I'm willing to learn and discuss.

I dont like the flat w AQ also. I would muck or 5bet depending on villain.

What will you flat here with then?

I would flat AA or KK from time to time. But not AQ. What would you suggest then?

Ranges seem really good to me. In practice I don't think we need so many mixed strategies as we overcomplicate things unnecessarily but in theory it makes sense. Still it is good to know which hands can go either way so we can adjust when we have some information about the opponent.

Flatting 4bets OOP is perfectly fine if we know how to play postflop (defending the range well and not just folding all the time because we put him on AA). What I see in the comments is exactly what I would have written three years ago but it just doesn't work like that... We get great odds and we have more than enough equity to make calling 4bets profitable. We also have to do it if we want to 3bet wide, otherwise we will be folding to 4bets way too much.

Originally posted by ferrari1f
I would flat AA or KK from time to time. But not AQ. What would you suggest then?

In order to show you , you have to tell me what is your 3b range here.

I will make a note of this hand. Thanks as usual Lemon. You are a beast from the BB.

Originally posted by kriko92
Ranges seem really good to me. In practice I don't think we need so many mixed strategies as we overcomplicate things unnecessarily but in theory it makes sense. Still it is good to know which hands can go either way so we can adjust when we have some information about the opponent.

Flatting 4bets OOP is perfectly fine if we know how to play postflop (defending the range well and not just folding all the time because we put him on AA). What I see in the comments is exactly what I would have written three years ago but it just doesn't work like that... We get great odds and we have more than enough equity to make calling 4bets profitable. We also have to do it if we want to 3bet wide, otherwise we will be folding to 4bets way too much.

Good point about the mixed hands - I can use https://www.random.org/ against someone who's giving me trouble, but in practice at low stakes and below I feel we can do what you said - just skew those hands based on opponents with what little information we have.

And yeah, his sizing is the culprit. I'd be shoving 93bb into a 4bet of 17bb, that's super huge and basically means I need small 5bet range if I want to 5bet a lot or it's pretty easy for him to play the spot, especially when most people 4bet polarized. When you plug these sizings into PokerSnowie, he almost stops 5betting and just flats loads of hands too - why I've increased my 4bet sizings as well as people did start flatting. And we don't have to go Bazinga postflop with these odds but play our hands fairly straightforward.

The way I've approached the spot in the past was that I simply 3bet really polarized in the Big Blind to avoid this very spot, and then 5bet/fold against a 4bet but in terms what I've learned and actually making the most money 3betting hands like suited broadways and then facing the uncomfortable task of being forced to play OOP without initiative in a 4bet pot with them is what will bring in the most $$

EDIT: Oh and I think against good players we do need to be flatting hands like KK from time to time. I'm not really sure with what frequency though? Or do we just 5bet AA KK and flat e.g. half of AK QQ combos

I can see a call preflop. AQs against a reg you can def apply a more stronger polarized range. That is, 99-JJ flat call and QQ+ 3bet - shove (if 4bet). No need to 5bet here since you don't raise light anymore in this case IMO

3betting is standard play here against a stealing range from the BTN. IMO a call is too weak with this hand.

I love the float on the flop to try to hit a flush draw on the turn.

We are discussing the call of the 4bet...

I am just admiring the play. A coach is posting and I am a noob. I am definitely learning stuff here. I will shut up now and just read then.

No problems dude:f_thumbsup: we all are learning. You just need to get to know the gang a bit - trust me, I had too

Originally posted by scopinad
I am just admiring the play. A coach is posting and I am a noob. I am definitely learning stuff here. I will shut up now and just read then.

No ,no , just giving you the right direction. No offence.

Originally posted by LemOn36
EDIT: Oh and I think against good players we do need to be flatting hands like KK from time to time. I'm not really sure with what frequency though? Or do we just 5bet AA KK and flat e.g. half of AK QQ combos

If we want to flat some strong hands, I think AA would be the best candidate for this as it is not that vulnerable. With KK we get Axx flop 20% of the time (and he has Axs 4bet bluffs) so I'd prefer to 5bet this. QQ is even worse in that regard. Also having AA in your flat 4bet range means you have a very strong hand on basically any board.

Originally posted by kriko92

Originally posted by LemOn36
EDIT: Oh and I think against good players we do need to be flatting hands like KK from time to time. I'm not really sure with what frequency though? Or do we just 5bet AA KK and flat e.g. half of AK QQ combos

If we want to flat some strong hands, I think AA would be the best candidate for this as it is not that vulnerable. With KK we get Axx flop 20% of the time (and he has Axs 4bet bluffs) so I'd prefer to 5bet this. QQ is even worse in that regard. Also having AA in your flat 4bet range means you have a very strong hand on basically any board.

Really liked this idea. And the benefits posflop as well.
The thing is what percentage we should just flat, and not 5bet aces?

Thanks LemOn for presenting https://www.random.org/ br>
Seems to be an interesting tool.