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What to do here?

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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 3 Players

SB: $4.90 (49 bb)
BB: $18.70 (187 bb)
Hero (BTN): $12.75 (127.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 9 9
Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 5 2 2 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.63, Hero calls $0.63, SB calls $0.63

Turn: ($2.79) 6 (3 players)
SB bets $0.50, BB raises to $1.40, Hero folds, SB calls $0.90

River: ($5.59) J (2 players)
SB bets $0.30, BB raises to $2.80, SB folds

Results:

Spoiler

$6.19 pot ($0.51 rake)
Final Board: 5 2 2 6 J
SB mucked and lost (-$2.63 net)
BB mucked and won $5.68 ($3.05 net)

SB(63/20) is a fish and bb is weak tight reg(24/13).

BB;s 3bet is only 2,5 so I think that he only 3bets QQ+ and AK+. His AF is 2.2 and I have 1k sample.

So, on the turn I don't know can I call. Will he play 77 and 88 this way? We still lose to 55,TT,JJ,66 and we don't know what the fish in sb is going to do if we call.

Maybe too tight fold? Just had a feeling that he is so tight that we are beat often. Also any spade or heart(heart not so bad) otr is bad, which is almost half of the deck.

So If I call this bet on the turn (like I maybe should given the odds), what is my plan otr.

No need to re raise right? We could iso the fish with a re raise?


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11 replies
StruxXx
Joined: 18.12.2015

Since I tend to play aggressive poker I would much rather prefer a raise on that flop. Generally I think you're ahead a lot of the time. BB could be donking A5s thinking that he's ahead. He could be donking a duce here but there's only 2 duces left in the deck so leaving him with only 2 combos of A2s. As well I will never ever say he's on full house with 55 in his hand - Will he donk that? Well considering the fact that there is a huge fish in the hand, it may be so but again I doubt it 'cos its a too big hand and there is not much of a hand that can call that bet, except flush draws.

So I would say that BB is something between 33+ to TT - Even tho he has that low 3bet I cannot believe that he would not 3bet JJ+ from that position in multi-way pot.

Since my history of play I realized a lot of players tends to donk OP either some kind of a flush draws (specially on low boards like this) or low pairs in which case you're ahead a lot of the time.
Raise that flop for pure value and play poker from that point on. I think its easier to evaluate your hand compered to his, rather then play a pure guess game on what does he donks with :)

As the way he played this hand he could have hit a miracle 6 on the turn, or he could overplay his 77-88 against a huge fish that he's feeling comfortable playing those hands. He coud even have an AJs hitting it on the river?
Am I giving him a correct range to this one and am I beeing too aggressive in this spot? :f_cool:


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StruxXx
Joined: 18.12.2015

So I've just come back from work and after a quick equilab calculation we get to this numbers.
Villain range : TT-55,A5s,A2s,65s,43s,AsJs,KsJs
Flop 2♥:5♠:2♠:
Villain Equity 37,96%
Hero Equity 62,04%

Turn 6♥:
Villain Equity 51.02%
Hero Equity 48.98%

River J♣:
Villain Equity 53.95%
Hero Equity 46.05%

This seems a legit range for me and if so this is a must raise on the flop :)
Opinions highly appreciated since I myself am trying to get better on assigning others on different ranges and doing an off the table work / study.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Hello and thanks for taking your time to write this. The range that you gave villain looks about right to me, some people might not call with 34s there though.

My reasons for calling on the flop:
1. Wanted to keep the fish in the pot with us having decent equity.
2. If I'll raise to standard 3x so around 19bb, the pot will be really big on the turn and we are committing to play for stacks if we bet again ott. Not sure if I want to play for stacks with 99 here.
3. If I raise otf, the bb is going to easily fold 5x and lower pps(66-77). We dont want him to fold hands that we beat.

So by raising we isolate us against a strong range of 99-TT,55,2x,KsJs,AsJs,QsJs.

Against that bb;s continuing range vs our raise we only have 20% equity.
I want to hear more opinions about this. Should I call or raise otf.

But since the range that you made looks correct to me, as played I should call turn and river because we have enough equity to call.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

BBs donk multiway looks a bit scary but you can call one street with your overpair. I think by raising we isolate ourselver against better hands. Can you really raise for value multiway with 99? Turn is a easy fold. You are forgetting that we are multiway and it will affect our equity. You have not constructed a range for SB. Do you really think that BB will donk flop and raise turn with 77? Those ranges are not so realistic imo.

Conclusion:
call flop
fold turn


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

We should not raise our 99 mw. Just call and see a turn.
Turn is ok.


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StruxXx
Joined: 18.12.2015

Originally posted by la55i
You are forgetting that we are multiway and it will affect our equity. You have not constructed a range for SB. Do you really think that BB will donk flop and raise turn with 77? Those ranges are not so realistic imo.

I find hard to construct a range for such a huge fish like SB is. He could be calling with 109o all the way to A8o... Everything with 50+ PFR is waaay to much hands in combo to get any certain range and besides that fishes often call without any logical thinking. I would not be surprised if fish donked that river bluff with something like Q10o...

So by raising we isolate us against a strong range of 99-TT,55,2x,KsJs,AsJs,QsJs.

Against that bb;s continuing range vs our raise we only have 20% equity.
I want to hear more opinions about this. Should I call or raise otf.

I dont know where did you come up with 20% equity - but even with that range that you said that would call a flop we still have 60% of equity agains his range.
I would definitely raise that and I'm staying with that :)
I would even bet a turn card no matter what - we're almost always ahead of that fish in SB and we have a decent chunk of equity against BB

So my play would be like Raise flop, bet / fold turn, check / fold - if he shows any signs of additional aggression I would fold.

Why would I raise? Simple - If my hand is good enough to call it is good enough to raise :)


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Originally posted by StruxXx

So by raising we isolate us against a strong range of 99-TT,55,2x,KsJs,AsJs,QsJs.

Against that bb;s continuing range vs our raise we only have 20% equity.
I want to hear more opinions about this. Should I call or raise otf.

I dont know where did you come up with 20% equity - but even with that range that you said that would call a flop we still have 60% of equity agains his range.

Why would I raise? Simple - If my hand is good enough to call it is good enough to raise :)

20% equity:

board: 2♥5♠2♠
          Win   
MP2    19.66%   { 9h9c }
MP3    80.34%   { TT-99, 55, A2s, AsJs, KsJs, QsJs }

Btw I think that you are going to be in a lot of trouble if you always raise with a hand that is good enough to call.

It would make a lot more sense to raise here with a hand like K♠:Q♠: since we don't have showdown value if we miss. So no showdown value+decent equity vs almost any pair+fold equity(we want villains to fold because of no showdown value) = raising is better than calling.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by StruxXx
Why would I raise? Simple - If my hand is good enough to call it is good enough to raise :)
Mmm ,not even close. If you have less than 50% you can call, this does not mean you can profitably raise. And it is not ok to do that as you should fold vs aggresion...


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

find hard to construct a range for such a huge fish like SB is. He could be calling with 109o all the way to A8o... Everything with 50+ PFR is waaay to much hands in combo to get any certain range and besides that fishes often call without any logical thinking. I would not be surprised if fish donked that river bluff with something like Q10o...

If villains range is TT-55,A5s,A2s,65s,43s,AsJs,KsJs (I believe it is not) we have that 62% equity as you said. We do not know SB's range so you didn't put that in at all.. Lets say SB has 30% random range then. TT-22,AJs-A2s,KJs-K5s,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,T5s,T3s,98s,96s,94s,92s,86s-83s,74s-72s,63s,43s,AJo-A7o,A5o,KJo-K9o,QTo-Q9o,J9o+,T9o. Here is some sort of random range that I constructed with Equilab. BOOM now we 47%.

We have no idea what range SB plays. The range you put BB on is too tight. If he 3bets pre 2,5% there could be only AK,KK+ so QQ,JJ,TT are possible. Raising his donk would be stupid.

You said you would bet/fold turn. So now when someone bet before us you are not planning to call anymore, you fold? You would bet only if both of them check? Or would you call this turn? =)


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

Call flop and evaluate turn, fold vs aggression. That would be my strategy. Against only 1 opponent we can play a bit more aggressive than with mw pots


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Raising with bluff catchers 3-way is one notch worse than raising with bluff catchers heads up which is already really really bad.


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