The "Stop and Go" play

no problem, he constructed a time maschine go back to the past and win this f*** tournament with MY article ♦

so he can use a time machine and only has 1 bracelet? what a donkey..... ♦

exactly ! ♦

Hi grummeler,

I have a hard time reading long posts. lol.

After reading so many badly writen articles about Stop and Go play, I decided to see if yours was one of the very few well writen ones. Most people know about this, but struggle to but it into words. IMO (not very experianced on this type of play) NICE ARTICLE! Nice that you went to so much effort!

I just wanted to add a point......

I see alot of people using this play style, and they use it very badly (mostly at totally the wrong time). So, do you think this article should only be available to a certain status level at PokerStrategy? Do you think its ponitless using this on lower limits? If not all limits, which limits and up? I think this would be a nice addition to the strategy section myself

If these questions have been answered, sry, as I said I have trouble concentrating on larger posts.

PS: do you have mod rights to move threads in this forum?

PSS: I'll ready all the other replies and answers when I get round to it. ♦

Best regards,
Stiev

thx for the flowers

no i dont have mod mode. so i think, never tried to move a thread ♦

hm about the "status" and buy-ins.....

i think you can use this play in every buy in tournament. but i think it might work best at the 10-69$ tourneys. because people have to know what they are doing, so a fish will not notice his good odds or will eventually fold preflop although he shouldnt.
so sometimes you might have fold equity where no fold equity was supposed to be preflop.
the very best players, who know these type of play, cant do anthing much against it.
of course they will call you very very often on the flop, because the know you will push no matter what. so if they are holding a pair, they will look you up.
but with 1 or 2 overcards it will be tough for them.

so the buy in isnt that relevant, althoug with medicore player it will work best.

the play by itself may be a highly theoretical one. you need to know everything about odds, late game play and foldequity. but i think this knowledge is used to many of the silver status player. so i would leave this thread open to everyone.

those player who are not used to the late game, the foldequity, odds, hand ranges, and so on, should not use this play, because they wont know when it is best to use and when it wont work. a lot of experience is needed with this play to use it well.

but i have no experience in writing article. so probably im wrong and this thread will lead people to use a play they cant handle properly.... i hope not

Originally posted by grummeler
If so, insert another coin and try again!

Very nice....

Grummeler! Great article.

Hey great post. I knew about the stop and go but i had no idea of the maths behind it.

Nice article!

*sticky*

Hi grummeler, I was wondering if I could translate your article to post it on the PS-French community forum? Does it drop any problems to you?

(note: actually, I already translated it, but I'm waiting for your agreement before posting it ♦ )

Really nice article btw...

of course you can

Originally posted by grummeler
of course you can
thx

Great article, i remember watching someone do this in a poker show on tv. (i believe party poker the big game ). But this looks really interesting, i'm definetly going to try this!

I don't know if anyone has asked this yet but.

Lets say I hold 67s in (is that good enaugh)
(Or go with 55)

If CO bets,
you in BB calls

flop

A K Q

Should you still push? I mainly think about the 67 in diamonds.

EDIT: It's so likely that he'd hit the flop, although not sure if he could call with the hit in K or Q without the flush possibility, so maybe you have fold equity? I mean a push here would look like a semibluff, either pair + stright / fush imo. Could be callable with even hitted kings?

Or do I fail..

Originally posted by stiansk
I don't know if anyone has asked this yet but.

Lets say I hold 67s in (is that good enaugh)
(Or go with 55)

If CO bets,
you in BB calls

flop

A K Q

Should you still push? I mainly think about the 67 in diamonds.

EDIT: It's so likely that he'd hit the flop, although not sure if he could call with the hit in K or Q without the flush possibility, so maybe you have fold equity? I mean a push here would look like a semibluff, either pair + stright / fush imo. Could be callable with even hitted kings?

Or do I fail..

Yes you have to push always.. if he has kings or queens or a pair he would probably fold. If your too scared to push when there is a scary board then don't use this strategy.

thanks!

Awesome. Ive never heard of this move, but reading about it now I realise its been used on me more than a few times.

What kind of range do you guys recommend using this play with? I dont imagine we are limited to small pairs here, as if you are pushing on any flop the move will more often than not be a bluff? Is there any reason you couldnt use small suited conns? How about medium Ax?

Can this play be reversed?

For instance, a player with an M of 8-10 opens in late position, and the table folds around to your BB. You have a comfortable M of 30+. Can you utilise the stop and go, or would it depend more on the flop?

Originally posted by grummeler

Originally posted by alejandrosh
great post coach.

however there's one thing I don't understand, I saw a coach from the spanish forum doing a stop and go with AQo , now I'm kind of confused about that play.

this depends from where the original raise came.
if the raise came from the cutoff, it is supposed to be stealraise, so i dont want to create fold equity on the flop with my AQ.
AQ beats his open raising range by far, so i will push all in preflop. he will get good ods, i want him to call, and i lose value by giving him a way out of the hand.

but if the raise came from MP1 and my opponent is known to be tight, the right play is to stop and go.
because now im NOT in front of his range with my AQ, and i do want to create fold equity on the flop.

so it is like it is in poker, every situation is different

First of all, excellent article! Congrats

I'm sorry, but...alejandrosh, you say you saw him doing stop and go with AQ...how can you tell if he really did that or he just flat called and then bluffed on the flop?!
Or are you talking about some video where se says he is doing it?

Ok thats nice technique.
But now how to defend against this? I run into something like that couple of times and folded totally confused...
Maybe the way to think is like:: was I to call his all in preflop? if yes, so I call anyway despite missing the flop?