Zoom: KK vs cold 4bet in CO

I think this is a question no one can answer reliably without info. KK is strong enough, shove and find out.

I would call and see flop. Hero got KK IP so let's see and decide OTF.

I bet you faced AA.
You cannot fold KK here tho.

I think I would just call. Not because its not profitable to go AI, but in my opinion their range is very polarized here. At least it is on NL16. They can do that with a lot of broadways or even trashier hands. If an Ace comes up you will lose some money to weaker pairs ( but its not likely that he will go AI pre with JJ or TT), sometimes to an Ax, but if there is no ace otf there are playing really bad with TPs and bad kickers.

Our hand needs protection. Villain will sometimes hit hard with his broadways too and we don't want to see any A. We have some fold equity and ok equity vs villains calling range. Shoving KK here is profitable in the long run and I don't think we can make it more +EV with a call.

Depending on the stats I would either call or shove, if for instance the reg is like 18/15 I would call if he is more looser and agg I would shove.

Really, really hard to fold KK pre flop. The 4bet does not necessarily mean AA. Personally, I would at the very least call here, but in reality I would probably just shove.

Do we really expect that many broadways 4bet here preflop? QQ+, AK is a decent estimate of his range here. There aren't any bluffs here. Both calling and shoving are fine. Folding is not an option with KK.

Originally posted by la55i
Our hand needs protection. Villain will sometimes hit hard with his broadways too and we don't want to see any A. We have some fold equity and ok equity vs villains calling range. Shoving KK here is profitable in the long run and I don't think we can make it more +EV with a call.

The call is a defence too...

Originally posted by Pistoleroo
Do we really expect that many broadways 4bet here preflop? QQ+, AK is a decent estimate of his range here. There aren't any bluffs here. Both calling and shoving are fine. Folding is not an option with KK.

I agree here. Look at the situation with villain's eyes. Tight utg opens and a tight CO 3 bets. Not that many bluffs will dare to fold 4 b.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i
Our hand needs protection. Villain will sometimes hit hard with his broadways too and we don't want to see any A. We have some fold equity and ok equity vs villains calling range. Shoving KK here is profitable in the long run and I don't think we can make it more +EV with a call.

The call is a defence too...

We defend our blinds when villain steals. Here I didn't mean that we should defend our hand vs villain who exploits us. I meant that we should protect our hand the way you protect your sets OTF by raising when FD is possible. If villain holds for example AK, I like shoving more than letting him see the flop cheap.

If we call, we might be able to fold our weaker hand and not lose our whole stack but the same applies other way around. Villain might be able to fold his weaker hand too. I don't think we can make some magic maneuvers postflop that would make calling more +EV. So why not shove and avoid facing difficult decisions when the outcome will be almost the same?

Most important is that we cannot fold here and getting it in is not a mistake.