NL20 - AKo 4b pot OOP CO v BU

Calling pre is ok but you can 4bet too. I would just cbet OTF 1/2. As played I don't see any problems with your bet size OTT.

I think my bet sizing is too big to get value from worse hands. I don't see him having any worse KX so I think I have to bet really small for value from JJ-QQ and A-hi.

I think that is just missing value. If villain has JJ-QQ or KQ he will call a bigger bet. If he is calling 1/3 he is calling 2/3 too. If he is going to fold, he will not continue with A-high even if you bet 1/3.

And by betting so small you let him chase profitably his draws. If he has AhQh for example. And I'm pretty sure he has that hand in his range. Vs your 4bet he probably will fold his bluff 3bets but flat his value 3bets. KK+ he can 5bet. I think you put villain on a too tight range here.

Ahh okay makes sense. I just don't expect people to flat 4b's 100bb eff' unless they're trapping.

4b preflop and cbet flop.

Originally posted by muel294
I think my bet sizing is too big to get value from worse hands. I don't see him having any worse KX so I think I have to bet really small for value from JJ-QQ and A-hi.

Sizing is ok here.
Board is dry on flop and we should be cbetting it a lot. Villain will call with weaker hands - TT-QQ, KQs , sometimes KJs , some backdoors too.

Originally posted by nitrol
4b preflop and cbet flop.

This.

Originally posted by muel294
Ahh okay makes sense. I just don't expect people to flat 4b's 100bb eff' unless they're trapping.

Calling 4b is common and not only with strong holdings.

I would do the 4bet smaller, 2.4x at most specially given the 3bet sizes and OR.

As played checking flop is ok if you rarely 4bet bluff, if you do bluff that a board you will want to cbet a small size is fine.

On the turn betting is mandatory the board is dry for a 4betpot just bet enough to have a pot sized shove for the river.

OOP it is good to 4b bigger.

I'm confused. How does the amount of our 4bet bluffs affect cbetting OTF? Are you saying that if we 4bet bluff rarely we can't cbet for value and if we do 4bet as a bluff we must miss our value by not cbetting? I don't see the logic here.

If you dont 4bet bluff your range is QQ+ AK. Given the spr you can pot all the money in two streets so you can check flop and let villian stab with any random holding and/or value. If he doesnt stab we can bet turn and shove river for value. The same if he bets flop and checks turn we can shove river.

I don't still see how does it matter if we have a bluff 4bet range or not.

If we do 4bet bluff but we hold this TPTK on the flop, how is it different? We can do what you said with this particular hand no matter how wide is our 4bet range?

If our range is QQ+,AK we can bet flop and shove turn too. Then the risk of villain hitting a set or 2 pair is smaller.
If our range is JJ+,AJ+,72o but we hold AK here we can bet flop and shove turn for value.

Originally posted by la55i
I'm confused. How does the amount of our 4bet bluffs affect cbetting OTF? Are you saying that if we 4bet bluff rarely we can't cbet for value and if we do 4bet as a bluff we must miss our value by not cbetting? I don't see the logic here.

Generally in 4b pots you do not have to bet big.

Originally posted by Naixy
If you dont 4bet bluff your range is QQ+ AK. Given the spr you can pot all the money in two streets so you can check flop and let villian stab with any random holding and/or value. If he doesnt stab we can bet turn and shove river for value. The same if he bets flop and checks turn we can shove river.

OOP we should bet this flop.

When contemplating not betting flop, you should think about the normally rather silly "I'll have to call anyway, so I might as well bet myself". Bet small because the board is dry and the SPR is low (bigger bets may commit us in a strong range versus strong range confrontation). I can see a check as a part of a balanced strategy though.