3Bet pots oop vs loose passive fish

IMO these both hands looks like spew.

Hand 1 I'm not sure. I would like it if villain had shorter stack and you could get him all in on this flop. Now you committed yourself with A high.

Hand 2 I like preflop but I would just x/f flop.

First, post hands in separate threads. This way you will get a more detailed analysis.
Second, villain has vpip 74 and pfr 22?
Third, in hand1 villain is opening for 5bb from utg. Is this his normal sizing? Your 3b is not ok, the sizing too.
Cbetting till AI is not ok as you didn't improve.
Forth, hand2 is total mess. Why do you pour money in the pot there with nothing? Villain called your big squeeze and it will not be that easy to push him off.
As a general, I will play it cautious in hand1 when villain opens for 5bb from utg. If we do not improve, I will not invest my whole stack.
In hand2 I will squeeze and cbet on good boards.

You should post one hand per one one thread.

Hand 1:
It is impossible that villain has 22/74 vpip/pfr so is it really 74/22? These stats do not tell me enough. I would like to see how villain reacts to 3bets. And I want to know how many hands do you have on villain.
AKo is standard flat vs UTG opener for me but if you think villain is a fish and opens 5x as a standard, you can 3bet him. Your 3bet size is still too big. You said that you 3bet big to get it all-in on a good flop. There will not be so good flops so often so I would go just with a standard raise. OTT you are just donating money.

Hand 2:
Pre is ok, I guess. OTF your cbet is big and you are basically only donating money to villain. I imagine his range is full of pocket pairs and he will not fold those with so little left.

To answer your question, OOP you have to lead with big bets if you hit a made hand and get opponents to call you with the wrong odds. As far as the hands are concerned, at the microstakes you play good hands for value. Avoid air until you make it to NL200.

Avoiding air until NL200 sounds like we are not going to bluff very much and we bet only our value hands. This is NL25 already and I think ppl are able to exploit us. I don't see us making much profit if we play only strong hits. But I agree that these hands are poorly played.

Nl25 is not that low level.
We should not avoid bluffing but should pick up the right spots no matter the level.

against such fishes this play is optimal probably at all levels bluff value ranges need to balance more against regulars

Originally posted by KnowWhyStarted
against such fishes this play is optimal probably at all levels bluff value ranges need to balance more against regulars

Against fish what play is optimal at all levels? The way you played or the way scopinad suggested?

These players are fish, that means you are a better player than them, correct?

Then why do you need our help in the first place? If they are so obviously worse at poker than you. You're saying they turn up with bad hands at showdown, correct? Then just keep putting all the money in 80BBs deep with ace high and you'll obviously show a profit. They are retarded fish after all, so there shouldn't be any problem.

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by KnowWhyStarted
against such fishes this play is optimal probably at all levels bluff value ranges need to balance more against regulars

Against fish what play is optimal at all levels? The way you played or the way scopinad suggested?

yeah, scopinad suggested play

Originally posted by NothingIsForSho
These players are fish, that means you are a better player than them, correct?

Then why do you need our help in the first place? If they are so obviously worse at poker than you. You're saying they turn up with bad hands at showdown, correct? Then just keep putting all the money in 80BBs deep with ace high and you'll obviously show a profit. They are retarded fish after all, so there shouldn't be any problem.

dont get your point. I am a fish too in other eyes

Everyone is a fish.
Remember, we should execute such plays vs villains that know where the fold button is. We cannot fire at will be everyone. This is spilling money.

The thing is that once you 3bet that large in both hands and force the SPR to be that low, you f yourself in the a basically because now you are practically forced to put the money in if the SPR is ~1

The real question is do you really want to do that to begin with. With the AK hand it might be fine but it's the EP player you are against so his range will be tighter even if you think he will have a bs hand on showdown. And AJ can also be seen as unnecessary.

At the very least you cannot do this type of play more than once or twice before even the most retarded players will make sure to hold a pair before putting the money in like that in the future.

I agree that we should not make such big bets preflop.

Originally posted by NothingIsForSho
These players are fish, that means you are a better player than them, correct?

Then why do you need our help in the first place? If they are so obviously worse at poker than you. You're saying they turn up with bad hands at showdown, correct? Then just keep putting all the money in 80BBs deep with ace high and you'll obviously show a profit. They are retarded fish after all, so there shouldn't be any problem.

Yup, I'm better than them and I don't need your help
I'm saying that they go to showdown with bad hands like 88 for example (hand 1). That is why I wouldn't pump the pot with A high. You can do that when you have something but I don't see a reason to get crazy with A-high. Even fish are not so stupid they will go broke with J high.

Did you win either of these hands?

I would say overall the hands weren't played that badly. I wouldn't even call it a spew since preflop was played fine in reality and the SPR being so small means you have to do what you did, although you won't expect to make much money when you get to the flop, but it will be above 0 so better to not fold at least.

I shouldn't be so harsh it's not like you really did anything that wrong in these hands.

No matter what the SPR is but in hand 1 I would like to note that villains prf is small compared to his VPIP and he opens 5x, imo that huge 3bet is not good. And that turn bet on double paired board with A high is not good. On hand 2 I would make a smaller cbet or skip the cbet completely. What is villain going to raise OTF and how much our A high with ok kicker has equity against that range?

The truth is that overall these hands were played badly.

Originally posted by la55i
Did you win either of these hands?

Obviously not.

Spew=bad and that is it. There are small details that hero missed.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i
Did you win either of these hands?

Obviously not.

captain obvious

thought my range is above their ranges, so if SPR is 1:1 i must put money in.
Maybe i should x/c once in both hands to keep bluffs in their ranges.