Yea too big is not good. We have to find a golden mid way.
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Hmm..might just be me, but when I shove that turn card, I am always gonna be strong and imo this hand is a great hand to turn into a semi bluff on turn against a good reg. My value/raise/shoving(depending on how deep we are) range on turn is gonna consist of KJc/d, 66, TT and QQ slow played pre in pos (occasionally) a long with 89c/d, J9d/c any QT (I could maybe raise QT on flop as well, but it's far from a given).. so it's a lot of straight up value hands that are gonna shove to protect and none of which AQ, AA, KK has beat (AQ, AA, KK has about 18% against this raising range and can't correctly call and if he does, he can be exploited till the end of the world here) I only see him being able to possibly call a shove on the turn with QT,77,AKcc, AQdd, AKdd, QQ and TT which I would have 51% equity against, with my entire range here. thoughts?
Originally posted by NatRPheM
Hmm..might just be me, but when I shove that turn card, I am always gonna be strong and imo this hand is a great hand to turn into a semi bluff on turn against a good reg. My value/raise/shoving(depending on how deep we are) range on turn is gonna consist of KJc/d, 66, TT and QQ slow played pre in pos (occasionally) a long with 89c/d, J9d/c any QT (I could maybe raise QT on flop as well, but it's far from a given).. so it's a lot of straight up value hands that are gonna shove to protect and none of which AQ, AA, KK has beat (AQ, AA, KK has about 18% against this raising range and can't correctly call and if he does, he can be exploited till the end of the world here) I only see him being able to possibly call a shove on the turn with QT,77,AKcc, AQdd, AKdd, QQ and TT which I would have 51% equity against, with my entire range here. thoughts?
Only thought that came to my mind is that when your shoving range on the turn/flop is this then when you call on the turn your range is extremely weak on the river; mainly TPTK/TPGK.
+Villain will also call your shove with his 3b bluff hands like 89s + ATcc + A7cc+A6dd+67s etc.
Originally posted by nitrol
Board is with many draws so when call we will not have much this way...
+1
Originally posted by marsa08
Originally posted by NatRPheM
Hmm..might just be me, but when I shove that turn card, I am always gonna be strong and imo this hand is a great hand to turn into a semi bluff on turn against a good reg. My value/raise/shoving(depending on how deep we are) range on turn is gonna consist of KJc/d, 66, TT and QQ slow played pre in pos (occasionally) a long with 89c/d, J9d/c any QT (I could maybe raise QT on flop as well, but it's far from a given).. so it's a lot of straight up value hands that are gonna shove to protect and none of which AQ, AA, KK has beat (AQ, AA, KK has about 18% against this raising range and can't correctly call and if he does, he can be exploited till the end of the world here) I only see him being able to possibly call a shove on the turn with QT,77,AKcc, AQdd, AKdd, QQ and TT which I would have 51% equity against, with my entire range here. thoughts?Only thought that came to my mind is that when your shoving range on the turn/flop is this then when you call on the turn your range is extremely weak on the river; mainly TPTK/TPGK.
+Villain will also call your shove with his 3b bluff hands like 89s + ATcc + A7cc+A6dd+67s etc.
Yeah well, at the river, what do I beat anyway with a top pair? and this is also depending on how deep stacked we are compared to pot size, given his exact situation.. I don't see myself calling that many turns against unknown, reg or fish, shoving range will be different depending on opponents stats with those exact stacks. The only hands I can see myself calling on turn would be naked FD combos which is xxcc that I get to the flop with, so no, the river isn't necessarily weak, but surely polarized when it comes to betting. I don't see myself calling with AQ on turn that much for example, if I am not ridic deep, to me it's more of a push/fold spot with all the draws out there, depending on opponent stats and/or reads. Also I doubt someone that only has a 10% resteal is gonna bluff raise THAT many hands pre.
Originally posted by la55i
Yes I know. I wasn't going to bet huge but a bit bigger than small. If small is around 1/4 - 1/3 I think it might be a bit too small to fold out Qx for example.
I know that you know. I should have said that from the beginning. It was just that someone else with less routine might get the idea that "the bigger the bluff = the more folds = the more profit" holds. Beginners can fall into that trap. You can at least see the argument popping up from time to time.