J9s 2pair on river vs shove

I would fold this hand pre. And I would fold to villains raise OTT.
As played river is a bit difficult without info. Villain can have sets and better 2pair but if he is maniac he can do this with Kx too.

I need to think about river, but turn seems like well-suited for a check-back. A pair of nines extracts no more value.

Some players have J9s in their opening range so preflop it is not a mistake.
The turn bet is. Pair+draw is a x there.
As played, we can call half of the time.

I would bet bigger the flop and bet bigger the turn or even just checked the turn without info on him, with your bets you are representing a marginal hand, wich actually is. He could have bluffed you out or overvalue his AK bacause of your passive play.

We have TP on the flop so it's not that much important to think what will be good turn barrel cards, imo. It's fine, of course, but we have the best hand very often and we are not bluffing, but betting for value. Since any overcard to 9 is not the best for us on the turn, I would bet the flop bigger. Then the turn is not the best card and I think we can check back and if we bet, it should be smaller (1/2 or less), which you made. If we check back, I believe we will sometimes have to call the river even without the flush, but maybe it's not necessary. As played, his hand smells like flop set alot. I don't see him overbetting the turn with TP, honestly. I think we should fold.

Well I did make the call, which I wasn't too happy with making. Anyways villain turned up with 44. Wasn't expecting that haha.

Thanks for the advice on the turn everyone. Now I look at it I've got position, don't want to play for a big pot and have decent showdown value, so checking makes sense.

You are welcome.

Nice call there You have to expect him bluffing if you take such a line.

I'm not so sure it's a nice call. I usually end regretting those kind of calls. On the river I remember he insta shoved, usually people think at least a little bit about how to get max value out of their strong hands. Maybe it's the other way round I dunno.

It isnot that bad to call there. The turn is the problem.

I think Hero is missing the reasons why he is doing certain things. The only reason why I would cbet this Turn is to get weaker hands to call or to protect my hand vs. overcards. We don't really have to protect because we have a strong backdoor-draw and our 2nd pair just has the 4th best kicker. That's why it's an easy checkback.

As played I will fold the river because people aren't bluffing like this enough. Twopair nice and good, we are pretty crushed by his turn-checkraising range (even though its valuepart is pretty small given the 9 blocker from hero, but people are bluffing SUPER rarely)

Originally posted by MisterSnS
I think Hero is missing the reasons why he is doing certain things. The only reason why I would cbet this Turn is to get weaker hands to call or to protect my hand vs. overcards. We don't really have to protect because we have a strong backdoor-draw and our 2nd pair just has the 4th best kicker. That's why it's an easy checkback.

As played I will fold the river because people aren't bluffing like this enough. Twopair nice and good, we are pretty crushed by his turn-checkraising range (even though its valuepart is pretty small given the 9 blocker from hero, but people are bluffing SUPER rarely)

Your line looks like -5bb/100 line 8-o. Tell me your nickname, i will bluff you every hand, you'll see where are people bluffin

Originally posted by hellraiser22

Originally posted by MisterSnS
I think Hero is missing the reasons why he is doing certain things. The only reason why I would cbet this Turn is to get weaker hands to call or to protect my hand vs. overcards. We don't really have to protect because we have a strong backdoor-draw and our 2nd pair just has the 4th best kicker. That's why it's an easy checkback.

As played I will fold the river because people aren't bluffing like this enough. Twopair nice and good, we are pretty crushed by his turn-checkraising range (even though its valuepart is pretty small given the 9 blocker from hero, but people are bluffing SUPER rarely)

Your line looks like -5bb/100 line 8-o. Tell me your nickname, i will bluff you every hand, you'll see where are people bluffin

This is nonsense.
You are overestimating your bluff abilities.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by hellraiser22

Originally posted by MisterSnS
I think Hero is missing the reasons why he is doing certain things. The only reason why I would cbet this Turn is to get weaker hands to call or to protect my hand vs. overcards. We don't really have to protect because we have a strong backdoor-draw and our 2nd pair just has the 4th best kicker. That's why it's an easy checkback.

As played I will fold the river because people aren't bluffing like this enough. Twopair nice and good, we are pretty crushed by his turn-checkraising range (even though its valuepart is pretty small given the 9 blocker from hero, but people are bluffing SUPER rarely)

Your line looks like -5bb/100 line 8-o. Tell me your nickname, i will bluff you every hand, you'll see where are people bluffin

This is nonsense.
You are overestimating your bluff abilities.

Nonsense is that people buffing SUPER rarely and we should be always folding the nuts, especially in situations like this.

People are indeed bluffing super rarely like this. I'm sure that villain has a value hand. Whether it is better or worse value hand than ours, I don't know. But to call that bet we have to win close to 40% of the times. Straight just got there + sets and better 2 pair are very much possible. I think folding is the correct move here.

it is an easy river fold vs over bet push. 1) you play againt unknown - bcs you have only 6 hands vs him
2) he cc oop your UTG open - he made a lot of respect to your open.
3) flop is pretty dry there is no need to XR on the flop with a set from UTG open
4) turn makes the board wet - a lot of draws come here.
5) river closes only one draws T8,QT. I'm not sure he will protect T8o,QTo from BB vs UTG open. So, we have QTs(4)+T8s(4) + 22(3)+77(3)+99(1) + K9s(2).
6) His sizing on Turn and River sounds like really value bet - TURN = 3X and River SHOVE.
So, folding TURN seems like exploiting fold.

Originally posted by hellraiser22

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by hellraiser22

Originally posted by MisterSnS
I think Hero is missing the reasons why he is doing certain things. The only reason why I would cbet this Turn is to get weaker hands to call or to protect my hand vs. overcards. We don't really have to protect because we have a strong backdoor-draw and our 2nd pair just has the 4th best kicker. That's why it's an easy checkback.

As played I will fold the river because people aren't bluffing like this enough. Twopair nice and good, we are pretty crushed by his turn-checkraising range (even though its valuepart is pretty small given the 9 blocker from hero, but people are bluffing SUPER rarely)

Your line looks like -5bb/100 line 8-o. Tell me your nickname, i will bluff you every hand, you'll see where are people bluffin

This is nonsense.
You are overestimating your bluff abilities.

Nonsense is that people buffing SUPER rarely and we should be always folding the nuts, especially in situations like this.

Nonsense is that you think you have nuts here as there are better hands ....
And yeah, players do not bluff too much on rivers. Escpecially after raising the turn.

If this is a multi-street bluff as a part of any villain's range, then bluffs should be quite rare. He is essentially risking $5 to win the $1 in the pot (flop size + your bet).