Fold JJ against SD and overcard?

It is normal to 3b JJ from BB vs BU. Even vs unknown.
Kxx low board is a board you should attack almost always. The K hits your 3b range well.

Originally posted by wehleef
Comment:
I was wondering if I should play my Jacks PF more aggressive and how to handle it on this flop, when I only have a midpair.
Is it possible to force him to fold when he has a king in his range? Or is it the best decision to just fold, since there is also a SD?

Preflop
The button open/raise 3bb. To get a better metagame most regulars O/R from the button with 2.5bb.
The button doesn't have a full stack of 100bb.
I don't think Villain is one of the best players.

Hero is in the big blind. This means he plays the flop, turn and river out of position. The button has the advantage of position: he can adapt his play to the actions of the out of position opponent. Therefore Villain has to pay for this advantage: Hero should have 3Bet to 4x the O/R.
Hero is only behind AA, KK, QQ. Even AKs is a underdog to pocket Jacks. So it is fine to go all-in preflop.

Flop
Villain is a weak player on NL2. These type of players will not fold toppair. They probably would fold neither bottom- or underpair nor an Axo hand. Hero cann't bluff these players out of a hand. Most of these players can not think in ranges.
Hero could CBet but that would increase the pot and if Villain raises Hero probably would have to fold.
Calling one (half-pot) bet with middle pair is fine.

Turn
Folding is fine. Villain has bet big preflop, called the 3Bet, and gave action on flop and turn. Mostly weak players are passive and only give action when they have the goods.

Another line of play is: Villain is a weak player on the button. He has a wide range I guess. Hero could apply the 3.2.1.-rule.

I prefer calling JJ on BB for 2 reasons: Your hand is strong enough to play postflop and we want to defend wider than average on BB. We can raise BTN with weaker hands (with at least 1 high equity card). However, that's just one opinion (which I have learned from my coach as well )

As played, vs unknown we can fold turn.

GL at the tables!

Yeah, right. You call with JJ and do not know what to do OOP on Axx,Kxx,Qxx flops...

Why do we want to 3B JJ here?

For value of course.

We can 3bet JJ for value easily against BTN here. OTF I would cbet.

Look how you stand vs BU's defending range:
MP2 58.33% 57.63% 0.71% JJ
MP3 41.67% 40.96% 0.71% 77+, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, AJo+, KQo

Originally posted by nitrol
Look how you stand vs BU's defending range:
MP2 58.33% 57.63% 0.71% JJ
MP3 41.67% 40.96% 0.71% 77+, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, AJo+, KQo

I would like to add, that from my observations, many players really often defend even wider range:

       Equity  Wygrana  Podział
MP2    64.17%   63.61%    0.57% { JJ }
MP3    35.83%   35.26%    0.57% { 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AJo+, KQo }

I wanted to give the tight option and even there we are favourites.

In general, how likely do you consider an unknown BTN calls/fold (ratio-wise) a 3B from BB pre-flop at the micros?
In Hero's case, what if you bet and villain calls OTF?
In Hero's case, what if you x and villain bets OTF?

If he folds - we get the money preflop.
You can see 2 probable ranges above for BU calling a 3b.
The ratio is individual but in both cases we stand good.
If we bet this flop and villain calls, do you think he is doing this with Kx only?
I think there are PPs, backdoors too...
You have 2 streets and depending on the turn card you can barrel turn.
If we x flop and villain bets we cannot fold.

I'm not sure if I understand your first question correctly but if you mean what range BTN usually defends against 3bets, I would say it depends a lot on villain especially on lower limits. Someone calls super wide, someone folds way too much. Decent players should be calling with quite wide range too.

If you bet and villain calls, he still has some draws, lower pocket pairs and other broadways etc.. You can usually bet turn small too.
If you check and villain bets, you can call one street.

I do not mean the range of BTN where he defends with. I literally mean the likelihood that BTN calls/fold a 3B from the BB at the micros. For example, one can say from his experience/knowledge that an unknown BTN calls a 3B more than folds. I believe, this is what you meant la55i in your first alinea, above this message, right?

For the records, I do not try to argue the 3B I really value your view in this case because I am not 100% sure.
I do not think that villain will call with Kx only if we bet this flop.

The call/defend vs 3b is a personal thing. There are players that call too much, there are ones that fodl too much.
The rare thing on micros is the 4b.There are bluff 4bets but still players do not bluff 4b that much.

I don't get it why we can call one bet on the Kxx flop. What would villain bet with there and why? What do you expect if you call? Hit J on the turn? Or expect him to give up?

Yes, agree with that. Thanks.

Originally posted by bobocop
I don't get it why we can call one bet on the Kxx flop. What would villain bet with there and why? What do you expect if you call? Hit J on the turn? Or expect him to give up?

When we x, he can stab with medium Pairs, or if he is too active with a wider range.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by bobocop
I don't get it why we can call one bet on the Kxx flop. What would villain bet with there and why? What do you expect if you call? Hit J on the turn? Or expect him to give up?

When we x, he can stab with medium Pairs, or if he is too active with a wider range.

Ok, but if we think we're good on the flop, shouldn't we call down turn and river too?
Or if we're folding the turn (which doesn't change a thing because A4 is only a small part of his range), why we were calling flop anyways?

My point is, why do you think you're loosing on the turn, when you thought you could be good on the flop? Because of possibility that the opponent could stab the pot? Just to make sure that he's not stealing the pot you risk 8 big blinds and it's ok?...but why couldn't he stab the turn also if we think he could stab the flop?

Trying to find holes in my reasoning, thanks for reply