A5s call 3bet in blind battle OOP

Can you 4b here? What do you think?

For me it is a 4bet bluff.

Originally posted by nitrol
Can you 4b here? What do you think?

Is an option. This regular 3bets KJs+ but he is calling IP with almost 10% of his range, so I was hoping for a good draw to go broke in the flop or a dry flop to donk

Originally posted by rvnikauj
I was hoping for a good draw to go broke in the flop or a dry flop to donk

I think those are bad plays. Might work at NL2 but not higher.
If you go broke with a draw you are usually behind if you get called, right?
And why would you donk a dry flop with very small equity? Either villain reads that as weakness or then he thinks you are polarized and defends enough so you don't make any profit.

The easy option is to fold ot 3 bet
If we 4 bet bluff and get called, I guess we have to cbet that board. And then what do we do? No a big fan of going broke with an airball at nl2

Why would we have to cbet that board?

I think if we want to play our 4 bet range, AQ, and over pairs bet here

Vilain won't be folding much of his 4 bet calling range either here tho

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by rvnikauj
I was hoping for a good draw to go broke in the flop or a dry flop to donk

I think those are bad plays. Might work at NL2 but not higher.
If you go broke with a draw you are usually behind if you get called, right?
And why would you donk a dry flop with very small equity? Either villain reads that as weakness or then he thinks you are polarized and defends enough so you don't make any profit.

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by rvnikauj
I was hoping for a good draw to go broke in the flop or a dry flop to donk

I think those are bad plays. Might work at NL2 but not higher.
If you go broke with a draw you are usually behind if you get called, right?
And why would you donk a dry flop with very small equity? Either villain reads that as weakness or then he thinks you are polarized and defends enough so you don't make any profit.

Imagine hero is Ac5c he 3betted and we called. We have 36% equity to flush draw:
We'll be behind most of the time against villains range unless he is 3betting J9 or KJ in the case he has 6 outs and in a 3bet pot maybe he decides to go broke as well!
The flush is EV if we push the flop:
EV=201.5BB*0,36*0.97-81BB*0.64=20.079 BB && we generate some fold equity if he holds AT, AJ, AK?
Why is a bad idea then to go broke with the flush draw?
Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Originally posted by rvnikauj

Originally posted by nitrol
Can you 4b here? What do you think?

Is an option. This regular 3bets KJs+ but he is calling IP with almost 10% of his range, so I was hoping for a good draw to go broke in the flop or a dry flop to donk

Drawing is more expensive in 3b pot as the size of the pot grows bigger faster.
It is not ok to go broke with a draw as you will hit it not enough times to make it profittable.Plus it will be hard to play your draw OOP postflop.
Here you have an active BB and can start reacting to his 3b with bluff 4b. The hand is perfect for that.

Originally posted by SuperChompa
The easy option is to fold ot 3 bet
If we 4 bet bluff and get called, I guess we have to cbet that board. And then what do we do? No a big fan of going broke with an airball at nl2

Nothing like it. You will cbet only good flops that will lead to folds.
Why turn a plus EV preflop move into minus EV postflop disaster?

Originally posted by rvnikauj

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by rvnikauj
I was hoping for a good draw to go broke in the flop or a dry flop to donk

I think those are bad plays. Might work at NL2 but not higher.
If you go broke with a draw you are usually behind if you get called, right?
And why would you donk a dry flop with very small equity? Either villain reads that as weakness or then he thinks you are polarized and defends enough so you don't make any profit.

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by rvnikauj
I was hoping for a good draw to go broke in the flop or a dry flop to donk

I think those are bad plays. Might work at NL2 but not higher.
If you go broke with a draw you are usually behind if you get called, right?
And why would you donk a dry flop with very small equity? Either villain reads that as weakness or then he thinks you are polarized and defends enough so you don't make any profit.

Imagine hero is Ac5c he 3betted and we called. We have 36% equity to flush draw:
We'll be behind most of the time against villains range unless he is 3betting J9 or KJ in the case he has 6 outs and in a 3bet pot maybe he decides to go broke as well!
The flush is EV if we push the flop:
EV=201.5BB*0,36*0.97-81BB*0.64=20.079 BB && we generate some fold equity if he holds AT, AJ, AK?
Why is a bad idea then to go broke with the flush draw?
Please correct me if I'm wrong!

On what flops do you wish to go broke with a flush draw?
Remember that he has position and this is a great advantage.

Originally posted by SuperChompa
I think if we want to play our 4 bet range, AQ, and over pairs bet here

Originally posted by SuperChompa
Vilain won't be folding much of his 4 bet calling range either here tho

We are out of position. Board is dryish for 4bet ranges. Our overpairs don't necessarily have to cbet this flop especially if those block flushes. It is a 4bet pot and we can get it all in by the river with our nuts anyway and giving some free cards is not super terrible. And even if we would bet the flop with good hands it doesn't mean we have to bet there with 0 equity.

Originally posted by rvnikauj
Please correct me if I'm wrong!

MP2 30.22% 30.07% 0.15% Ac5c
MP3 69.78% 69.63% 0.15% AA, QQ, TT

If he has a set we don't have 36%, so against his overall range we could have something like 30%.
Can you tell me what those numbers are and how did you calculate that?
What is that 81bb? We are risking 88 by shoving?
What is that 201.5bb? We are the blinds with 97bb effective stack.

I have checked this with several calculators and with 30% equity we need 52% fold equity to break even. If we assume 0 FE we have -30bb EV and even with 40% equity it is -10bb EV.

Ok, so if I understand the best here is 4 bet pre and check fold the flop.
@nitrol Can you give example of good flops to bet?
thanks guys

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by SuperChompa
I think if we want to play our 4 bet range, AQ, and over pairs bet here

Originally posted by SuperChompa
Vilain won't be folding much of his 4 bet calling range either here tho

We are out of position. Board is dryish for 4bet ranges. Our overpairs don't necessarily have to cbet this flop especially if those block flushes. It is a 4bet pot and we can get it all in by the river with our nuts anyway and giving some free cards is not super terrible. And even if we would bet the flop with good hands it doesn't mean we have to bet there with 0 equity.

Originally posted by rvnikauj
Please correct me if I'm wrong!

MP2 30.22% 30.07% 0.15% Ac5c
MP3 69.78% 69.63% 0.15% AA, QQ, TT

If he has a set we don't have 36%, so against his overall range we could have something like 30%.
Can you tell me what those numbers are and how did you calculate that?
What is that 81bb? We are risking 88 by shoving?
What is that 201.5bb? We are the blinds with 97bb effective stack.

I have checked this with several calculators and with 30% equity we need 52% fold equity to break even. If we assume 0 FE we have -30bb EV and even with 40% equity it is -10bb EV.

I make a mistake on the calculations, I have to check that better!

Originally posted by SuperChompa
Ok, so if I understand the best here is 4 bet pre and check fold the flop.
@nitrol Can you give example of good flops to bet?
thanks guys
Dry, uncoordinated boards that do not hit his calling range.

Disciplined fold otf