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Folding top 2 pair vs reraise Push?!

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clovenhoofsdoom
Joined: 04.03.2016

Hey guys,

I guess it's pretty simple: my error was to not calculating odds and outs, right? I mean, I was talking myself into this call, although it was very very obvious which handcards Villain had. After this hand I stopped my multitabling session to re-evaluate this hand and thought, my gosh - use brain!

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Converted at http://handhistoryconverter.com/

SB ($2.05)
BB ($2.34)
UTG ($1.32)
MP ($2.26)
CO ($3.14)
Hero (Button) ($2.51)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, A
UTG raises to $0.06, 1 fold, CO calls $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, 1 fold, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.25) 6, Q, A (4 players)
BB bets $0.16, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, BB raises to $2.28 (All-In), Hero calls $1.88

Turn: ($4.81) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.81) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.81 | Rake: $0.17

Results:

Spoiler

Hero had Q, A (two pair, Aces and Queens).
BB had 6, 6 (three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: BB won $4.64


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17 replies
clovenhoofsdoom
Joined: 04.03.2016

The other point which could be an issue - should I squeeze AQs on the button? It wouldve prevented the BB from calling with low pockets, and wouldve made it super easy to play postflop on this board. But I usually do not 3bet AQ vs strong ranges, although it has good blocker effects it can be dominated by AK... :f_o:


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AgapieGheorghe
Joined: 10.07.2011

Yes, you can squeeze preflop.
You dont use a hud right ? So you have no stats on them ?

UTG raises to $0.06, 1 fold, CO calls $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, 1 fold, BB calls $0.04

BB will never call with QQ or AA here so when he donk on 6♦:Q♠:A♠: and then shove vs your raise you can put him only on 66 and maybe A6, but most of the time you will be against a set.


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clovenhoofsdoom
Joined: 04.03.2016

Yes, I think I have to be more careful when deciding in this big pots how to deal with it. Yesterday it was my first session with 5 regular tables, before that day I only played 3. So this may be an issue. Thanks Agapie for confirming that he played this hand with cards face up.


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clovenhoofsdoom
Joined: 04.03.2016

Squeeze: hmm I couldnt sleep yesterday due to too much coffee while playing poker :f_tongue: and I thought a squeeze would be fine with AQo, AQs probably better suited for calling because of it's slightly better playability and the fact, that I am not that often dominated by AK as it is the case when I 3bet UTG and get called. I still haven't worked too much on my ranges yet. But I guess this should be my rule of thumb here..


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MrQNo
Joined: 30.09.2006

preflop: I would squeeze oop in SB with AQs. Ip i think the call is fine.

flop: Villain’s donk bet can be a set (66, AgapieGheorghe explained why not QQ or AA). It could be A6(s). On NL2, it could be any nice-looking hand like a flush draw or even KJ. And a lot of those will call your raise, so the raise is for value. But after the 3bet, you are dead. This IS 66. On higher stakes, it could be the flush draw, but not on NL2. If you held KQ and the board was KQ6, AA would 3bet, too. But with A high, there is no misplayed overpair. Fold.


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RubbyDubby
Joined: 15.02.2018

I think AQ is always a squeeze there. You do not want to play AQ in a multiway pot and as played the blinds will call for sure too.

@AgapieGheorge You're spot on. You only beat A6


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pokerboy198229
Joined: 20.08.2011

Well its 2NL indeed so by saying its only 66 or A6 we assume we play only versus weak tight nits. I think on 2 NL there are a lots of donks who pays us off with TP or hand like 67 of spades. So just on that reason that its 2NL i will always call with T2Pair on flushy board. I fold only if the board is rainbow.


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Nochmals
Joined: 11.09.2009

clear squeeze in my eyes.. bt i am not good lol....


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Oracleman
Joined: 16.11.2016

I think a squeeze pre- flop is good here. A lot of the time you have the best hand and you have position. After the flop I'm pretty sure villain only takes this line with 66, A6s, and AQ. Maybe KJs, KTs, and JTs spades as a semi-bluff, but only if I had seen villain make similar plays before.


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MatoStar
Joined: 22.07.2017

Preflop persoally I am using mixed strategy squeeze/call, but also depends on opponents stats..
OTF: well, I would raise bigger and most of the time call on a shove. Actually how many combos beat us? Only 66 (3combos). But he can also have A6s, probably Q6s,KsJs,JsTs,7s6s,AQ or random Ax. Guys is NL2 everything is possible :-)


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clovenhoofsdoom
Joined: 04.03.2016

Originally posted by pokerboy198229
Well its 2NL indeed so by saying its only 66 or A6 we assume we play only versus weak tight nits. I think on 2 NL there are a lots of donks who pays us off with TP or hand like 67 of spades. So just on that reason that its 2NL i will always call with T2Pair on flushy board. I fold only if the board is rainbow.

It's not true - I believe that probably only a handful maniacs would reraise-push with a slightly wider range here. Usually them play with cards face up, so to speak - very honest. I do not always get it right what they have, but if I take my time to think about their lines and ranges I more than once knew on the flop what they had as holecards. They might think, yaaa we could do it with this and that, but the good news is - if they have "this and that" they often take another line. Balancing and "think in ranges" is for many players on NL2 nothing to care about.


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nsavov
Joined: 24.09.2010

vs the range QQ,66,AQs,KsJs,JsTs,8s7s,8s6s,AQo we have 41.30% and we need 41.10%
44.26% when we remove the QQ
With the rake I think this is a bortherline fold, but I dont mind always stacking off with top two on the micros. If he has any other flush draw and goes crazy with it its 100% call.


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pokerboy198229
Joined: 20.08.2011

Originally posted by clovenhoofsdoom

Originally posted by pokerboy198229
Well its 2NL indeed so by saying its only 66 or A6 we assume we play only versus weak tight nits. I think on 2 NL there are a lots of donks who pays us off with TP or hand like 67 of spades. So just on that reason that its 2NL i will always call with T2Pair on flushy board. I fold only if the board is rainbow.

It's not true - I believe that probably only a handful maniacs would reraise-push with a slightly wider range here. Usually them play with cards face up, so to speak - very honest. I do not always get it right what they have, but if I take my time to think about their lines and ranges I more than once knew on the flop what they had as holecards. They might think, yaaa we could do it with this and that, but the good news is - if they have "this and that" they often take another line. Balancing and "think in ranges" is for many players on NL2 nothing to care about.

You assume that only maniac takes this line. Well we didnt squuezed pre so we could have some draw and its less possible we have AQ/QQ/AA. So our range is wide vs even a good thinking player on 2nl if we dont mention calling stations and donks on 2nl


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Fanko
Joined: 24.08.2010

It is a clear call, the only question is why we raise the flop. Folding top two here means we practically fold 100% of our range which is absurd.


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GridironAssassin
Joined: 19.12.2014

Not raising his flop lead. Raising only folds out the hands you beat (bluffs) and you often get isolated against better hands (super narrow range 66). You want to keep him in with A6, Ax, 76s, 65s. Call flop and re-evaluate turn.


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DecMate
Joined: 25.01.2009

I'm going broke here all day at NL2, wouldn't feel bad about it. Not too much to think about.
Unless you know he's a properr reg nit but even that


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Interesting discussion here.

Preflop we can squeeze or we can call. AQo I would squeeze always but AQs I actually play as a mixed category hand. Both options are fine imo.
There was some discussion about not raising the flop but I would still do that. Flop donks have been quite often just some ok-ish hand or a draw. We can get money from weaker hands and at the same time I would like to protect our hand and not give a free card to 3 villains.

Then if we think about his 3betting range. He could do that with A6. As this is NL2 and the guy gets a pretty sweet price I think he could call pre with A6o also, what do you think? And what about Q6s? If he does that with A6o,A6s,Q6s then we beat already 7 combos and 66 is just 3. I believe QQ and AA are extremely unlikely. Then we could just add some maniac stupid 3bets also. Then we would be ahead already the majority of the time. Easily.

We need 39% equity to make a profitable call

Board: 6dQsAs
Equity Win Tie
MP2 46.71% 46.63% 0.08% { AhQh }
MP3 53.29% 53.21% 0.08% { 66, A6s, Q6s }

If he doesn't have those AA or QQ, we need only 2 combos that we beat. If he has AA and QQ in his range he needs to shove 2 more combos that could be combo draws like KsJs, JsTs and we would get enough equity.


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