Bankroll

For MTT SNG's you need to have a bankroll of around 200-300 buy-inns to deal with the variance in those games. Especially the 180 mans is 300 buy-inns not to much I think.

Cheers,
SDK1987

I apply something similar, something about the 2-300 buyin line. It is actually pretty interesting to think about that if you wanna grind 1$ MTT-s you need 2-300$.

does this include rebuy tourneys?

greets

maniac

Good point @Maniac. Always wondered how you take into consideration Rebuys and Add-ons in a BRM.
That's mostly out of an intellectual curiosity rather than in order to play MTTs with rebuy. Don't like Rebuy tournaments.
It's like to play with 1$ when some others can play against you with a billion $ feels like a huge disadvantage lol.
Is there a basic formula to calculate that ? Also How many rebuys according to a MTT depending on your BR ...
I saw variance calculators online but they don't take into account rebuys...

Kind Regards,
J-C.

Originally posted by OldSchoolPapa
Good point @Maniac. Always wondered how you take into consideration Rebuys and Add-ons in a BRM.
That's mostly out of an intellectual curiosity rather than in order to play MTTs with rebuy. Don't like Rebuy tournaments.

I don't know what the "accepted" idea is, but when I play RA tournaments, I assume I will rebuy at least once, and I almost always add on.
I rebuy the instant my stack drops below the starting stack, and add on unless I have a massive chip lead -- massive means that even if #2 adds on, I maintain the chip lead.

I also play cash games, so my practice is to play certain MTTs if I have won the buy-in for them in the previous week playing cash.
Those MTTs are the $3.30 NL 2-7 single draw on Stars, and certain PLO8 MTTs on other sites.

That way, I can play the MTTs and not worry about variance too much.

All the best,
VS

Thanks @VorpalF2F. Your way to do makes sens obviously.
I was more thinking about someone who only play MTTs /MTSNGs ... To have the right BRM for rebuy Tournaments might be a headache and when/why to use it.
On 888Poker i made a ITM on a MTT with rebuy but didn't rebuy once or use add on. Mostly because i registered with an offer with no deposit needed also because you might be tempted to keep rebuying over and over. Noticed some keep pushing any pairs , Ax suited , high broadways suited early and once they loose just rebuy until they get lucky. Made it ITM thanks to those guys who were more than happy to pay my stack when i had premium hands, didn't even have to hide the strength of my hand... But i don't think their way to do is +EV on the long run.

Hi everyone!

Interesting discusion. I personaly don't like rebuy tournaments eather and for that reason I am not playing them. But I think that I came acros some BRM for rebuy tournaments witch say that u need to take into consideration that u are playing 3x bigger BI tournament than actual BI is.
For example if u wanna grind $1 rebuy tournaments u need to consider them as $3 tournaments and if u have 200BI BRM, then u need bankroll of $600 to play them.
One interesting strategy for them is to enter tournament just before late registration is over, try to survive untill add-on and then play as normall tournament. I think that Tonka (Parker) say something about that, but it was maybe 1 or 2 years from now. As I say I don't like them, don't play them and don't follow any rules for them.

When it comes to "normal" MTT's I would say that there is no rool about what kind of BRM u should take. It really depends on a lot of things. I will mention just some of them:

Playing poker just for fun: if u are playing just for fun, then u don't need to follow any bankroll. Just play and have fun.

Playing poker for fun and to get some extra incom: if u wanna make some extra incom and have fun, then I will say that 100BI BRM is good enough for $1 and lower tournaments. Especially if u are not new to poker. For new players that wanna learn the game and climb stakes I think that 150BI should be good. Off course higher stakes more BI'ns u need.

Playing poker for living: I think that those who are doing for living probably should have from 600BI BRM and on. So they can play through variance and still won't need to step down stakes.

So this is like first step to get known what kind of BRM u need to look for. After that it cames the most toughest part:

BE BRUTAL AS U CAN BE ABOUT UR POKER SKILLS AT THE MOMENT

U really need to realize how good u are against the feald that u are playing. If u see yourself as a shark, then u don't need more than 150BI BRM. If u think that stake is tough but beatable, then u should think about 300 BI BRM or even more.

For 3rd step I will say experience. If u have low experience with stake that u wanna play (played less then 2k tournaments in last 12 months) then consider to have bigger BRM. If u know what kind of variance u can expect with the game that u are playing, then adjust jour BRM properly. With that I mean bigger variance bigger BRM, lower variance lower BRM.

I know that this is a lot to read, but there is really not unike BRM concept that will work for everyone. Unfortunaly u are more or less on your own on that. Set one BRM and if u are in denger of going broke or stepping down stakes too often, then increase your BRM.

GL at tables!!

Originally posted by OldSchoolPapa
But i don't think their way to do is +EV on the long run.

No, it certainly is not. 888 has a wide variety of freerolls, and players who play extremely loosely.

And, like you, I never rebuy if I won a ticket into the game.

All the best,
VS

@mylove190207 Thanks That's a good insight.
Indeed if you know your ROI% and ITM% on a specific stake and tournament you can almost have a perfect BRM.
When you don't know it's for sure better to be ready for the worst and double up what is considered as standard for normal Tournaments.
Agree on the Late registration when the Structure is like on PStars , on 888Poker late registrations can last pretty long so registering late can also be a huge disadvantage on their structure and format but we can cut the apple in two i guess defining with wich stack in BB you are willing to start with depending on the structure and then decide more accurately when to register. Considering when / why to rebuy and use addon it still a bit mystical in my head.
Obviously if you have a chiplead and want to keep it , sounds logical. Other than those specific situations can't say ...
Maybe also if you under average of chips it can probably be used as well ... But defining how many times you should rebuy in a MTT can't say ...

Rule for add-on is that u are making it if u get at least 2 times more chips than for re-buy. Basically those re-buy tournaments that offer same amount of chips for re-buy and add-on are not the best one to play. In fact u should try to avoid playing them. And u should add-on no mather of what stack u have.

If u are playing those tournaments, u should be prepared to re-buy. That is why is best to enter them with late registration rather then at the start, so u don't re-buy too many times. But anyway I think that 2 rebuys is max at tournaments that u have nice edge. Otherwise 1 re-buy. And as I already say add-on always.

But yea I don't follow strategy for re-buy tournaments so I pick that up from Tonka and Jamie. So will be interesting if someone, who actually study them, make some comment.

GL at the tables!

@mylove190207
You should make always add-on assuming it's giving you more chips than buy-in amount. Same goes for rebuy if buy-in gives you 1000 chips, rebuy 1500, add-on 2000, you take rebuy + add-on if buy-in is 1000 chips, rebuy 1000, add-on 2000 it's best to generally best to register close as close to add-on as possible and only buy-in + add-on. In most rebuy tournaments this is best strategy (specially since nowadays they are raking rebuys as well).

Another style would be play from the beginning just buy-in or buy-in + rebuy (assuming field is soft and there's fishes punting stacks). This will result for higher buy-in tournament tho. In most case nowadays it's best to latereg and minimize amount you use for buy-ins. You actually gain edge by latereging to add-on direct while there's players who quit tournament before add-on or don't add-on...

So basic tips:
* Always Add-on
* Try to minimize $ you spend for chips unless it increases your ROI.
* Prefer lateregisteration specially in turbo/hyperturbo format where people rebuy a lot and don't last until add-on. (specially when add-on is bigger sized than buy-in 2x, 5x, 10x)

For BRM. I'd say most people who play MTTs experience 200 - 300bin downswings. If you are Top reg in your games and/or play only deepstacks and small fields you might experience only 100 - 200bin. On the other hand people who don't have that much edge in stakes they play or/and manage risk poorly will experience much higher downswings or end up dropping stakes. If thinking whether you're bankrolled for 1$ tournaments or not, you should probably just try to study game + play some small tournies from freerolls to 5$ and try make some money from regular work while you build your bankroll and skills. If you aspire to be pro then 300bin is way too low. Correct number is more like 1000 - 2000bin since your bankroll need to cover enough money for downswings but as well for living expenses. Playing Breakeven for 3 - 6 months can be as brutal as big downswing since your living from your bankroll during that time. If you have some steady income like job, coaching etc you can take more risk with your bankroll.

Originally posted by CucumbaMan
I apply something similar, something about the 2-300 buyin line. It is actually pretty interesting to think about that if you wanna grind 1$ MTT-s you need 2-300$.

sorry to say this but sound sick to have 300 buyin line so the some play $215 have 65000 and the guys some play 25.000 buyin need to have 7.500.000 i not think the are so relly true and u think the guys have 300 buyin some play micro games

hi guys great and good tornerment anyway

Originally posted by Thiamtan

Originally posted by CucumbaMan
I apply something similar, something about the 2-300 buyin line. It is actually pretty interesting to think about that if you wanna grind 1$ MTT-s you need 2-300$.

sorry to say this but sound sick to have 300 buyin line so the some play $215 have 65000 and the guys some play 25.000 buyin need to have 7.500.000 i not think the are so relly true and u think the guys have 300 buyin some play micro games

You cannot really compare it that way. It's not like you cannot play 215$ tournament without having 65000$ bankroll, but if you actually play only 215$ tournaments 65k is not that much... People who play 215$ tournament online are playing as well playing 109$, 55$ and probably lot of low stakes stuff lower than 55$ as well so they end up with much lower Avg Buy-in. Live is little bit different story since you have higher ROI and fieldsizes are often smaller. It's very common that people swap, sell some their action for others so they don't carry all risk themselves. It's very few people who play 25k events and have 100% of their action themselves.

For sure, and as other mentioned above it depends a lot on the average size of the field as well.