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AKo 4bet all in call or fold pre flop?

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ToddBrunson
Joined: 23.05.2010

Another big loss session my NL5 cash game, almost i lost 2 buy in. I do not understand how i can this losest session almost every time, when i play what this site wrote and i saw lot of videos in full ring cash game. Or just bad series can be long about few years or rng joke for me.
This is the one where i lost my full stack. For Villain only 31 hands, he played 45/31, Micro limit usually 4bet all in with QQ, AKos, sometimes, KK, JJ, AQs. What do you think all is fine?

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $5 (100 bb)
BB: $5 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $9.39 (187.8 bb)
MP1: $5.18 (103.6 bb)
MP2: $9.22 (184.4 bb)
MP3: $5.53 (110.6 bb)
Hero (CO): $6.67 (133.4 bb)
BTN: $1.44 (28.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K♠ A♣
3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.52, 3 folds, MP3 raises to $5.53 and is all-in, Hero calls $5.01

Flop: ($11.13) 2♣ 6♣ 7♣ (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: ($11.13) 6♦ (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($11.13) 6♥ (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Spoiler

Results: $11.13 pot ($0.46 rake)
Final Board: 2♣ 6♣ 7♣ 6♦ 6♥
MP3 showed Q♠ Q♣ and won $10.67 ($5.14 net)
Hero showed K♠ A♣ and lost (-$5.53 net)


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10 replies
zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

Wrote it in another post this week: don't overvalue AK, specially offsuit, when you don't have FE.
Players on NL5 don't 4bet shove all-in with speculative hands. I just call pre-flop shoves with AK against maniacs I know very well, who shove A9, AT and that sort of hands.
Just fold to the 4bet, it will save you a lot of money on the long run.


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OrigamiPoker
Joined: 27.10.2018

In 6 max this is effectively mp vs btn ? i'm not really sure how or if utg mp1 and mp2 affects the hand it possibly does I don't play full ring though.But just in 6 max I don't like calling this shove from these positions. I don't mind jamming over a normal size 4bet because we have fold equity as the above poster mentions.Your also ip so I think your 3bet is a little on the large size it should maybe be closer to .45 with the 3bet.


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Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

I would most of the time just call in position. Especially at full ring most players are tighter than in 6 max and after his shove you are flipping most of the time and that's not what you want I think.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

I think 3betting should be ok here, but I'm not sure if I would go larger than 3x when IP.
When villain just 4bet shoves I think that is very often QQ+,AK or even tighter. I would fold AKo.

I do not understand how i can this losest session almost every time, when i play what this site wrote and i saw lot of videos in full ring cash game. Or just bad series can be long about few years or rng joke for me.

Could be a lot of things and we can't figure out that by checking just some hands. That would need a more in-depth review :) You could have some leaks you are not aware of, you might have tilting problems or then you are just indeed running bad.


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ToddBrunson
Joined: 23.05.2010

Thanks for the comment. Firstly the last, yes maybe i have to tilt sometimes, and i know when i tilt i lose lot of buy in and maybe mental problem and of course lot of bad beat, when i lose 80-20 pre or post flop chance. I know when i tired and hungary i do not sit and play poker or i hangover. Very bad enemies.
But this hands, he 4bet range 100, ok not so many hands, maybe 2-3 or 1. But he played 45/31, so i do no think his 4bet push range is very strong and tight. But you right if maybe tighter, example range KK-TT,AJs+,AKo i had only 48%. Even add some pairs, i just only 50%, coinflip, not so good for me, this range: KK-77,AJs+,AQo+. But what about i had got QQ? Easy call? First range i have got 58%, second range i have got 66%, enough to call, i think.

SDK even villain is fish, you just only call pre flop with AKo? And this open raise came mp3, not the utg2-3.

OrigamiPoker 3bet range i guess 0.52 so pot 3bet pre flop is good, especially villain is fish. But micro limit even he have AQ, sometimes AJ he never folded pre flop.

zetoninho, yes, maybe i had to fold 4bet, but i thinked he little bit maniac and try semi bluff, AQ, AJ, A10 or middle pair too. But my chance not so good even i add this hands his push range. But what do you think, i had got QQ, easy call?


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

You should check my video on common beginner mistakes. I talk about the importance of sample size when looking at stats.

You have 31 hands on him so his 4bet stat probably has only 1 hand. It is possible to have only 1 hand where he did 4bet even if you have over 100 hands on him.

His vpip/pfr is 45/31. Yes those are high, but the gap between VPIP and PFR is not that big. These stats are super inaccurate just in 31 hands. A normal 25/20 guy can easily have 45/30 or 15/10 stats if the sample is smaller than 100 hands.

The conclusion is that since our sample size is super small and the vpip/pfr gap is not huge, and the stats are not super high like 80/60, we should probably just forget about those stats completely.
On top of that, villain is not playing with a short stack, he actually has 110bb. No reason to think he is recreational.

Even that range KK-TT,AJs+,AKo is quite optimistic in my opinion. And I don't get why did you take out AA? There are still 3 combos of AA left and he will definitely play those this way too. If you add AA you have only 44% equity. That is not enough.


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Densyosh
Joined: 30.10.2009

Very standard easy call vs maniac.. if you've won this flip, wouldn't even have posted this hh :)


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ToddBrunson
Joined: 23.05.2010

la55i: Which is the videos, could you send link? But you right, this hand maybe not enough only i hope coin flip sometimes he showed AQ, AJ, A10. But you did not write, what could i do if i had QQ, fold and KK?

Desyosh: You are the first, who wrote call not a horrible.

And of course la55i wrote, not sure he calling station or maniac, but i bet for him, i thinked he not a better lag player or tag player. If i will have more hand i will write, villain stats. If i say something i label him between maniac and calling station. And i thinked AA maybe not push 4bet, so that's why i did not write his range AA.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

I talked about this video: https://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/44898/

You can check how things would look if you had QQ instead. I believe your equity should be higher than with AKo and that would probably be quite ok call.


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ToddBrunson
Joined: 23.05.2010

Thank you very much! I going to see tomorrow.


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