Love Limping Example 1

Originally posted by srichards
Ok. This is not technically a limp. I called villain’s minimum raise. However, if I raised this 2 BB raise to 6 BB, AQs would probably re-raise me to about 20 BB to take advantage of his 97% best preflop hand. It would be necessary to fold the 20 BB re-raise preflop with 99. Or let’s imagine that this is a true limp. The position of the players really does not matter. If AQs limps hoping that a player raises and I raise to a standard 4 BB, he would 3 Bet and I would lose 4 BB. Or if AQs is in position, I raise my 99 to 4 BB. AQs takes advantage of his strong hand and 3 Bets and I lose my 4 BB. Instead with my strategy of always limping, I earned 92 BB instead of losing 4 BB with this hand. I stopped raising preflop and started limping because I was annoyed with being squeezed out with 3 Bets. My VPIP is only 15% and not seeing the flop after a re-raise was frustrating when I don’t bet frequently preflop. Instead I will always limp and call any Raise up to 8 BB. I am not being squeezed out frequently and sometimes win big or moderate hands because of fortunate Flops, Turns, or Rivers. No raising for me. Just play smart post flop to make money. Again, my limp always strategy is working so far. Of course, I recognize that many excellent players who have won a lot of money never limp. Perhaps, there is more than one effective poker strategy.

First of all, let's make it clear that this is not a limped pot. You did flat a raise, which is totally ok with 99. I prefer to call most of the times 99 vs early positions raises and the reasons are obvious.

Secondly, if you 3bet here, I seriously doubt any good player would 4bet with AQs. It doesn't make sense.

Thirdly, the positions of the players do matter, a lot in fact, as in every preflop (and postflop) decision you have to make. In one word, the reason is: ranges.

"I stopped raising preflop and started limping because I was annoyed with being squeezed out with 3 Bets."
If you feel this, you need to work on your preflop game. I also don't know if by "limping" you mean flat calling open raises or just place the BB (which is the true meaning of limping) when you're the first to enter a pot.
There are 2 obvious reasons and a third one that make limping a bad idea:
- You can't win a pot by limping.
- You have to play OOP postflop most of the times with a weak range.
- Once this is micro-stakes, rake is big and you'll pay more rake because you see more flops.

Now lets get into the hand.
Preflop it is ok to flat call.
Flop I'd raise the min cbet. I can't resist it most of the times.
I think turn raise is bad against a polarized bet. I'd flat call and keep is bluffing range wider for the river. At this point, your hand is a bluff-catcher (and a good one) having called OTF.
As played, once micro-stakes players love flush-draws and you beat QJ, J9 and Q9 I believe you can stack-off here. Also, his 3bet size is an indicator of weak player.

Zetozinho – I love your response. It clearly defines the logic of avoiding limping. Firstly, I did state that this was not technically a limp. However, I asked the reader to imagine that it was a limp. To answer your question, limping does mean calling one Big Blind. I also flat call up to 8 BB raise with my 15% VPIP. I stated that I like limping because it reduced my chances of being squeezed out. Your response that I improve my preflop game was very reasonable. Also, you correctly stated that it is impossible to win preflop if one only limps. My reply is that I don’t care about stealing the blinds or making money preflop. I focus on making much more money post flop. You also argued that I had to play OOP post flop with a weak range. Well, that is not entirely true. My 15% tight VPIP makes it easy to play post flop OOP. Playing OOP post flop does not bother me at all. For instance, a player who plays JTs or 54s post flop will face difficulty playing OOP. However, I play AJx+, KJx+, QJx, AXs, or pocket pairs. This preflop hand selection is easy to play OOP. I hit the set, have a flush draw, have a pair with strong kicker, or I have two cards above any board card value. If not, I fold. Although, my win rate is strong, my WWSF is lower than Poker Tracker leak metrics because I will abandon a hand quickly. Again, I love your excellent advice to improve my preflop game. Maybe I will do that in a few months or a year. However, after being a losing player for eight years, it feels good to be winning for the last two years. I am going to simply focus on improving my decent post flop play to great post flop play. Afterwards, I may experiment to become a good preflop player. I am not a smart, good preflop player. I don’t even try to be clever preflop. However, one step at a time for this intermediate player. As far as your Flop suggestion to Raise. Sorry, my friend. That is poor advice. I wanted the Turn card to help my opponent in hopes that he would be willing to bet and call heavily against my Set. Besides the Flop advice, I learned much from your comments.

Originally posted by srichards
Ok. This is not technically a limp. I called villain’s minimum raise. However, if I raised this 2 BB raise to 6 BB, AQs would probably re-raise me to about 20 BB to take advantage of his 97% best preflop hand. It would be necessary to fold the 20 BB re-raise preflop with 99.

Hi srichards,
Nice hand, and well played. You are absolutely correct in not 3Betting 99, and quite correct that it would be proper to fold 99 vs a 4Bet.

Do you have Equilab?
If not, get it. It is free.
Here is what Equilab says about your hand:

       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    47.30%  47.10%   0.20% { AdQd }
BU     52.70%  52.50%   0.20% { 99 }

in this exact case, 99 is the favourite.

Let's assume though that MP+1 is really tight, and minraises only the top 12% of hands.
99 still has quite a lot of equity vs this range.

       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    52.31%  52.11%   0.20% { TT+, AKs, AJs-ATs, KTs+, QJs, AdQd, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }
BU     47.69%  47.49%   0.20% { 99 }

In the hand shown you just flat the flop, and say that raising here is bad advice.
Not raising does two things you don't want:
 It robs you of value. If villain has a hand that has some potential, we will call.
 It gives villain a free card. Here he held A♦:Q♦: If instead T♦:K♦: he would have completed his straight, and you'd have only a few outs to a full house.

There is a place for limping -- especially if a lot of people do it, and especially if they don't fold to isolation raises, by all means limp in and hope you hit the flop.
There is also a place for slow playing. I'm not convinced that this particular hand is such a spot.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a coach!;

All the best,
VS

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by srichards
Not raising does two things you don't want:
 It robs you of value. If villain has a hand that has some potential, we will call.
 It gives villain a free card. Here he held A♦:Q♦: If instead T♦:K♦: he would have completed his straight, and you'd have only a few outs to a full house.

There is a place for limping -- especially if a lot of people do it, and especially if they don't fold to isolation raises, by all means limp in and hope you hit the flop.
There is also a place for slow playing. I'm not convinced that this particular hand is such a spot.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a coach!;

All the best,
VS

Hmm! Two excellent players just told me that flatting the Flop was a mistake. Let me consider said advice. You may not be a Coach but your knowledge is evident.

Originally posted by zetozinho
There are 2 obvious reasons and a third one that make limping a bad idea:
- You can't win a pot by limping.
- You have to play OOP postflop most of the times with a weak range.
- Once this is micro-stakes, rake is big and you'll pay more rake because you see more flops.

I learn a lot at PokerStrategy.com. I also enjoy SplitSuits' YouTube videos. He just made a very interesting quiz about Zetozinho's noted factor of OOP post flop play. I hope everybody enjoys this quiz.
https://redchippoker.com/take/oop-cb-quiz/?utm_source=SplitSuit+LLC&utm_campaign=bac8a6a980-ss-new-cb-quiz&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9abc3dcb1f-bac8a6a980-132927389&mc_cid=bac8a6a980&mc_eid=6fa01ea161

Hmm I will check that.
I would most probably 3bet preflop, specially agaisnt min raise.

This doesn't apply to this exact hand, but zetozinho said something that's important:

Originally posted by zetozinho
- You can't win a pot by limping.

In cash games, blind vs blind if you limp from the SB or the BU you will play post-flop, and thus you will be charged rake.
If you min-raise, you may take the pot right there, and you are not charged the rake.

In tournaments this is less important, and in tournaments -- especially with high blinds -- it is hard for opponents to tell the difference between limping with hands that want to trap and hands that want to see a flop for cheap.

All the best,
VS

Preflop this should be a raise. But this is fine as a call as there are fish in the blinds and we'd like to play with them.
You flop a set, it's multi-way, raise. Calling a 1BB bet is never the correct play here, you have a big hand, you want to play a big pot. keep it simple.

Originally posted by DecMate
Preflop this should be a raise. But this is fine as a call as there are fish in the blinds and we'd like to play with them.
You flop a set, it's multi-way, raise. Calling a 1BB bet is never the correct play here, you have a big hand, you want to play a big pot. keep it simple.

I was going to mention that, but completely forgot to do it.
At micros i think that, most of the times, we should have a straight forward aproach.

Yeah, I think this hand has been a little overanalysed to say the least.. we need to first focus on the core foundation of our game plan. Crunching ranges in a spot that we shouldn't be in in the first place is arbitrary.