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Did I push KK too hard here?

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I promise this is the last hand I'll put on for now, as I don' wish to hog the group with tons of hands.

The reason I wanted to show this hand is related to advice I got from a coaching session yesterday, but I'm not sure if I understood it correctly. The advice was "Listen to the players story"

What do you think the Villain was holding?

Pre-Flop - play is perfectly normal.

Flop - I'm feeling that I should have bet closer to 2/3 of the pot then 50%. If he's calling I'm assuming he's on a drawish hand rather than an Ace. If he bet with an Ace from the button, wouldn't he raise me to see where his Ace stood? If he had a set - it is possible - wouldn't he raise this too, to protect against a flush?

Turn - If I assume he is calling on a draw or a weaker pair then I'm ahead. I still felt like I was still ahead here.

River - I felt like I couldn't check, although after his second call I was cautious. I feel like I should have bet closer to $1 if I am going to bet the river at all.

It's fine 'listening to a players story'. But am I listening to their true account, or am I imagining something different altogether? Man it sucks being new at something :-(

Pacific Poker - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players

BB: $3.04
UTG: $5.36
CO: $7.76
BTN: $5.00
Hero (SB): $5.30

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has K♠ K♦

fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.10, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, BTN calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65, 2 players) 8♥ 6♥ A♦
Hero bets $0.32, BTN calls $0.32

Turn: ($1.29, 2 players) 8♣
Hero bets $0.64, BTN calls $0.64

River: ($2.57, 2 players) 7♥
Hero bets $0.66, BTN calls $0.66,


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7 replies
Pokamon
Joined: 15.04.2006

Originally posted by Ch0pperReid
I promise this is the last hand I'll put on for now, as I don' wish to hog the group with tons of hands.

pls keep posting. thats why we are here after all.

Originally posted by Ch0pperReid
What do you think the Villain was holding?

AJ-A2 for the most part.

Originally posted by Ch0pperReid
Pre-Flop - play is perfectly normal.

yes, all fine.

Originally posted by Ch0pperReid
Flop - I'm feeling that I should have bet closer to 2/3 of the pot then 50%. If he's calling I'm assuming he's on a drawish hand rather than an Ace. If he bet with an Ace from the button, wouldn't he raise me to see where his Ace stood? If he had a set - it is possible - wouldn't he raise this too, to protect against a flush?

you should have checked. small hand- small pot is the big concept here.
if he's calling, his range consists of all the Ax (AJs-A2s, AQo-ATo), some 8x, some second pairs (JJ-99) and some FDs.
raising does not make sense, as villain does not have AA and AK in his range. you have all the nutadvantage.

Originally posted by Ch0pperReid
Turn - If I assume he is calling on a draw or a weaker pair then I'm ahead. I still felt like I was still ahead here.

no, he does not call any weaker hand anymore. on the turn he should let go of all his second pairs.
while betting KK on the flop was a matter of choice and range construction, betting it on the turn is a big mistake.
you need > 50% equity vs the continuing range w your holding to be value betting, but you probably have less then 20%.

Originally posted by Ch0pperReid
River - I felt like I couldn't check, although after his second call I was cautious. I feel like I should have bet closer to $1 if I am going to bet the river at all.

now you have 0%. there is no hand left that you beat, as all the flushdraws got there. he might start folding some Ax vs your tripple barrel though. still its a check.

Originally posted by Ch0pperReid
It's fine 'listening to a players story'. But am I listening to their true account, or am I imagining something different altogether? Man it sucks being new at something :-(

yes, you made up a cool, crazy story. unfortunatly it did not withstand the reality check.

check / call flop, check / fold turn is the standard line for KK on an A - high board. as you catch all the bluffs, that will bet flop, check down turn and river. make sure to take that same line w some weak Ax like A7s to call further barrels on turn and river.

for further instruction watch the funnel principle here:

https://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/30631/


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NAoise
Joined: 08.06.2020

Long post; but ya what worse hands are you hoping to get called by on the river.


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pisiattu
Joined: 01.04.2010

Oop I 3bet 0.4, as played had you transformed your kings in bluff?

3barrels without are speawy imho, have you a palantir?

Imho with Second Pair you haven't 3 street of value, river is cf


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Originally posted by NAoise
Long post; but ya what worse hands are you hoping to get called by on the river.

The honest answer is, I didn't know. Middle pairs basically. My feelings were - Why would you not reraise AJ with a flop that can be vulnerable?

Originally posted by pisiattu
Oop I 3bet 0.4, as played had you transformed your kings in bluff?

3barrels without are speawy imho, have you a palantir?

Imho with Second Pair you haven't 3 street of value, river is cf

A palantir? As in a crystal ball? Erm..no, I wish I did! I'm a very new player, I'm sorry for not being as good as everyone else here.


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londonsystem
Joined: 19.11.2008

It's NL5, and I'm afraid that you're trapping yourself.

You have no description on the opponent, and I think it is quite important in this type of hand.

1) If BU was a TAG, I would 2.5x PF. On the flop, bet pot and give up if called or raised.
2) If a fish, call PF, x/c Flop, 1/2 bet OTT and give up.

Both of the above are not 'good' play, however, it works for some opponent's pool. I would dive into the DB and find how many times I three-barrel weak and get +ev in this level.


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Hey LondonSystem (Chess fan, I assume? London System was my opening of choice many moons ago)

I'm trying to look through my database now. I'm very new to Pokertracker etc. How do I search for three barrels? I'm in Statistics on PT and can't see that stat by name.


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londonsystem
Joined: 19.11.2008

Originally posted by Ch0pperReid
Hey LondonSystem (Chess fan, I assume? London System was my opening of choice many moons ago)

I'm trying to look through my database now. I'm very new to Pokertracker etc. How do I search for three barrels? I'm in Statistics on PT and can't see that stat by name.

Sorry for the delay.
Yes, I used that chess opening back then, without much success.

I use Holdem Manager, however, on Youtube, search Smart Poker Study, and he got a lot of Pokertracker videos. You could filter by action on each street.


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