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3bet bluff pre with A4s, hit A turn... Hero?

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Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 0.02(BB)
SB ($1.83) [VPIP: 7.7% | PFR: 7.7% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 67]
HERO ($2.23) [VPIP: 21.5% | PFR: 17.4% | AGG: 29.2% | Flop Agg: 31.8% | Turn Agg: 28.7% | 3-Bet: 6.1% | Fold to 3-Bet: 54.5% | 4-Bet: 8.1% | Hands: 24540]
CO ($2.16) [VPIP: 20.5% | PFR: 13.6% | AGG: 62.5% | Hands: 48]
BTN ($2.36) [VPIP: 25.5% | PFR: 21.4% | AGG: 34.5% | Flop Agg: 34.6% | Turn Agg: 37.2% | 3-Bet: 13.5% | 4-Bet: 15.4% | Hands: 424]

Dealt to Hero: 4♣ A♣

CO Folds, BTN Raises To $0.06, SB Folds, HERO Raises To $0.24, BTN Calls $0.18

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.06 effective]
Flop ($0.49): J♠ 3♠ 2♦
HERO Bets $0.30 (Rem. Stack: $1.69), BTN Calls $0.30 (Rem. Stack: $1.82)

Turn ($1.09): J♠ 3♠ 2♦ A♥
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $0.52 (Rem. Stack: $1.30), HERO???


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9 replies
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SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

Any info on his/her fold to 3bet would be nice as well. it's also smart to post your own though process.
With top pair and straight draw I would most likely just Cbet around half pot on turn for thin value. if you face aggression with a shove you have easy fold. Now I would just call and her-evauete the river.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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Hi SDK1987, thanks for taking time to answer.

Villain F23B is 21.4% over 14 opportunities. Basically unreliable.

I usually try not to post my thought process straight away, as this can influence other people in their answers. I like people to give me their opinion based on the hand, and not based on what I interpreted of the hand, which is already a deviation from facts. Only my 2 cents, but if there is a rule that states I should do it then I'll do it next time.

I must say I disagree with your claim: "With top pair and straight draw I would most likely just Cbet around half pot on turn for thin value". I think "I have TP so I bet" is a dangerous thought process, as in a 3bet pot, OOP, my relative hand strength does not justify a bet. I am in a very bad shape against any of his A (which there are plenty of), crucified against set of Js which should check OTF by all stretches of the imagination, I do beat a FD and maybe he can call with TT/99 if way too loose, but I make anything else -that I beat- fold (AA KK QQ not included in his range here). Hence why I think a bet is bad. We have so many better hands in our range we can bet with. AK AJ KQspades AA JJ Ax of spades, A2spades or without spades, A3 etc... If you bet A4s here, how do you protect your checking range and what do you check call with?

Also, you say "if you face aggression with a shove you have easy fold", but nothing tells you villain won't just smooth call a bigger A like AQ AT (which he should, I have a range and nut advantage here as PFR), or even a set of J. With such a hand OTT OOP, it's a check, and then call/fold depending on villain and bet size. If I was IP and villain checked, then it's another story, but OOP betting here is a mistake.

Happy to get my thought process destroyed.


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DecMate
Joined: 25.01.2009

Honesty in practice i think i'd just x/f turn.
if he x back i'd 1/3 river.
Just don't see anything we beat, yeah we have the redraw but it's just a shit spot and we're crushed by villains range. Fold and move on.


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Swish29
Joined: 06.04.2009

If I don't know what to do in a spot where I think of bluffcatching, I would consider these:
-Do I block villains bluffs?
-If I fold here, is it exploitable?

And here we can see that, holding no spade, villain has all his FDs. We don't block 65s (that's negligible though tbh, but with a low Ft3bet we can't completely discard it). We don't block villain's floats (all the suited KQ/QT/T9/KT that could call because highcards + back doors), so for instance, it is much, much better to call Ax here than KsK. We have a redraw in case we're wrong (and we'll be wrong a lot I guess, but we have very good pot odds).
If we fold here, given that we already fold QQ/KK/Jx/TT- (not sure what hero does with TT- here), it's quite exploitable and we basically check fold this turn at a frequency where villain can bet any 2 and auto-profit.

I am not saying that we should play GTO at NL2, just that if I don't know what to do in a spot that seems close, I try to at least have a good approach from it GTO-wise. I expect villains to be somewhat polarized here so I'd rather x/c A4 than AT that blocks some floats.

I am also never betting here, I would rather not bet made hands weaker than Ax here, so as a consequence, I would bluff catch with Ax that are too weak to triple-barrel, and A4s seems like the best Ax to do it. I agree with hero that betting is too thin here and we actually don't have value. Worst hands put more money in the pot if we check rather than betting.


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pisiattu
Joined: 01.04.2010

Oppo can have A:s x:s, AJ, A:s Qx, AxQ:s Jx, QT, KQ, KT with flush draw or redraw, PP, some flush draw and double backdoor with SC.

You can split cbet turn for thin value and cc for bluff catching, Ax and Jx better than QQ-KK because they don't blocker his calling range.

:)


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DecMate
Joined: 25.01.2009

Honesty i think the advice given here is great but it's wayy too unnecessarily advanced for NL2.
Just keep it simple for the time being. In reality your not going to be exploited at nl2. We're not vs some GTO pro here so all the info on blocker effects and balancing our lines isn't helpful and probably feels overwhelming to you.

As i said, just fold and move on. My advice is to post more common spots that you encounter and that will have a bigger impact on your winrate. :f_drink:


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nutural
Joined: 21.09.2011

Fully echoing the above. :f_drink:
It's NL2. It's almost dangerous to analyze something on level 10 when things are on level 1. Flirting 1-2 levels above yes, but too much can lead to paralysis. :f_ugly:

As played, this appears as a strong line in NL2 (ofc he could just be taking advantage of us "showing weakness"). So with some reluctance I would fold.
Overall, maybe a smaller sizing on the flop (1/3 or 1/2).

:f_biggrin: "A fish in the unmaking" :f_biggrin:


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Thanks for all your input guys. Your help is greatyl appreciated.


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

i don't see how this is ever a fold, especially with a redraw (though it's admittedly weak), this seems insane.
villain can bet so many hands that we beat and might check river... draws, random pairs that are bet for whatever reason, who knows.


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