(Rush) | 33 3way | Lay down low set vs river-raise?

Pre-flop is standard. Flop you could think of a check/raise for value of around 25c in total.

As played I would check to the aggressor on the turn. With the lead now and the raise of villain I would stack off most of the time.

If you call like now on the turn I don't see a reason to lead again on the river. I would expect villain will bet most of the time for value. Now you are committed to call for 90c more.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Certainly thought about check-raise on the flop, but his bet on the flop was so weak ... maybe somebody hits a fd on turn ...

Then on the turn I faked hitting a Ten or having something weaker that would fold to a raise....hoping somebody actually has a Ten or better ..

I had a feeling he was confused when I called his turnraise and he would check back a lot of strong hands and bluffs on the river while he would call a Ten (certainly a good one) or better.

That is my screwed? way of thinking

fold pre. as played XC, XC, XC mway. XC, XC, XR HU.

there is no reason to bet out of tempo and give away the strength of your hand.

I’m never folding pre . As played I would 3-bet the turn, its difficult to play river OOP like this after just calling .

Originally posted by Pokamon
fold pre. as played XC, XC, XC mway. XC, XC, XR HU.

there is no reason to bet out of tempo and give away the strength of your hand.

Folding pre-flop with 33 for 3c more in a multi way pot would be really bad with the implied odds you get to hit a set.

when you call from the SB, you open yourself up for getting squeezed (and never see a flop anyway).

when you call w a small PP mway, you will never see a turn unimproved.

and when you finally see a flop, hit your set, you will learn, that multiway hand strength goes up tremendously. therefore you want to create situations, where you over- and not underset.

for those reasons you will not find any chart (expect those on pokerstrategy, that where bad to begin with and are now 20 years old) that call w small PPs from the SB multiway.

I wouldnt call 33 from SB there unless MP,BU or BB is recreational. Yes, its only 3c more, but our implied odds are significantly reduced in multiway. Competent regular wont pay us off without very strong hand, even overpairs will be reluctant to give you action if you play aggressive in multiway. On the other hand it also means that if we get action then we often crash against higher set.

As played your line postflop doesnt make much sense - I would either check/raise flop because this is good board for you or play like Pokamon - and check/call turn if we called flop. Donkbets doesnt make much sense there. Usually if you want to call and lead next street then its better to just check/raise. call & lead usually should be used only as exploit, not standard.

Unless you know the BB is frequently squeezing I don’t think you can ever be making a mistake by calling here, charts are not the end all be all in poker. As for Emily’s argument, reg’s at whatever stakes you play are different than reg’s and rec’s at 2nl.. theres a reason a “reg” is at 2nl or why anyone for that matter is there for more than a short while and its because they have too many leaks too build a bankroll and move up. I perceive it as kind of silly to post a chart everytime someone disagree’s with you. Charts are not meant to blindly follow, many things in game to consider and especially at 2nl the implied odds are there where an abundance of player’s can’t fold top pair.

All you need to call is at least roughly 10:1 implied odds pre-flop , if you don’t flop a set you can check fold with no mistake made. There is far more than 10x the bet in all player’s stacks. Some people here seem very argumentative when someone doesn’t agree with their line of thinking… not everyone has to agree with one another… and as a moderator said in another post there is often more than one way to play a hand.

so you are stating, that looking at charts, numbers and EV is silly, when discussing a math based game?

i would fold bottom pairs, start calling 55 - 77 and start squeezing 88+ for pairs.
I agree with pokamon. You could argue to be a bit tighter or looser depending on the playerpool.

We can fold marginal low pockets in the sb, rake is gonna be a factor too in the long run.

Personally i would just c/r huge with a set on the flop on NL 2, but i dont mind taking a passive line since the board is so dry we dont need protection and we have more or less a way ahead way behind situation. Lead turn / calldown seems fine. or just c/c c/c and realize our equity this way.

@Casey55

theres a reason a “reg” is at 2nl or why anyone for that matter is there for more than a short while and its because they have too many leaks too build a bankroll and move up.

So why you dont move up? It looks like you have massive edge on nl2 but still stick there.

All you need to call is at least roughly 10:1 implied odds pre-flop

Ok, lets say we have spot:
EP(100bb) opens 3bb, MP(100bb) raises to 9bb. Casey55 wakes on SB with 22. So we call our 22 and hope to win whole stack every time we hit,right? You know - even in outdated pokerstrategy charts there is "call 20" rule - villain should have at least 20x more behind him than you have to call.

Implied odds or direct odds are not everything. You need to consider a lot more factors like positions, players, domination or playability.

I perceive it as kind of silly to post a chart everytime someone disagree’s with you. Charts are not meant to blindly follow

Obviously not, but do you have any knowledge how you should deviate from charts and adjust to different situations? Usually if solver thinks that hand is not profitable as call then in reality it will be very marginal call at best.

Some people here seem very argumentative when someone doesn’t agree with their line of thinking… not everyone has to agree with one another… and as a moderator said in another post there is often more than one way to play a hand.

What matters most is to make decision based on reasonable thinking process. I'm not saying that there is always one 'perfect' line in situation, however you may make decision based on completely wrong premises and undercut your winrate in longrun a lot.

Originally posted by EmiyaKiritsugu
@Casey55

theres a reason a “reg” is at 2nl or why anyone for that matter is there for more than a short while and its because they have too many leaks too build a bankroll and move up.

So why you dont move up? It looks like you have massive edge on nl2 but still stick there.

All you need to call is at least roughly 10:1 implied odds pre-flop

Ok, lets say we have spot:
EP(100bb) opens 3bb, MP(100bb) raises to 9bb. Casey55 wakes on SB with 22. So we call our 22 and hope to win whole stack every time we hit,right? You know - even in outdated pokerstrategy charts there is "call 20" rule - villain should have at least 20x more behind him than you have to call.

Implied odds or direct odds are not everything. You need to consider a lot more factors like positions, players, domination or playability.

I perceive it as kind of silly to post a chart everytime someone disagree’s with you. Charts are not meant to blindly follow

Obviously not, but do you have any knowledge how you should deviate from charts and adjust to different situations? Usually if solver thinks that hand is not profitable as call then in reality it will be very marginal call at best.

Some people here seem very argumentative when someone doesn’t agree with their line of thinking… not everyone has to agree with one another… and as a moderator said in another post there is often more than one way to play a hand.

What matters most is to make decision based on reasonable thinking process. I'm not saying that there is always one 'perfect' line in situation, however you may make decision based on completely wrong premises and undercut your winrate in longrun a lot.

someone's a little angry lol... I study at pokercoaching.com, JL teaches the 10:1 rule. He also teaches GTO poker. I know all about GTO and have studied a ton on his site. I always have to remind people that GTO is showing a HU situation against another strong competent player, again which 2nl is not. Your claiming the call is marginal is completely opinion based and I'm fine with that, but the problem lies when people try to push their opinions as factual in a game that has many different ways to play many different spots. I study the interactive hands on Poker-Coaching which are like mini quizzes where you are given a situation and have to pick an answer and I cannot tell you how many times the coaches who are world class poker players are explaining how multiple answers are justified.. tons of them are pre-flop situations like this. I've also read you criticize a moderator's skillset and some other edgy comments that come off as belittling and in condescending manner. Behaviour like hurts the forum and makes it an unpleasant experience

Originally posted by Casey55
I've also read you criticize a moderator's skillset and some other edgy comments that come off as belittling and in condescending manner. Behaviour like hurts the forum and makes it an unpleasant experience

One of the moderators' skill set it is not getting upset when people get cranky at us.
It is important to maintain a congenial atmosphere in our discussions.

It is helpful every so often to review our forum principles

Oh right, now I'm labeled as irrogant asshole because I try to help by questioning wrong argumentation
It looks like I have no other way but to surrender. Casey knows what he do - in January 2020 he was playing NL2, in October 2021 he is still punishing nl2 "regs". Its clear that time and financial investments into poker studies are paying off.

This is exactly why this forum has fallen - you try to help, but instead of simple 'thank you' you get accused of being asshole because people stuck forever on nl2 know better their aquarium. EOT from me.

Originally posted by EmiyaKiritsugu
Oh right, now I'm labeled as irrogant asshole because I try to help by questioning wrong argumentation

Nope, wrong again. Not for questioning argumentation, but rather how you questioned it.
By all means raise counter-arguments.
By all means suggest different courses of action and identify you how or why you think that they may be better.
But please do not call other members names or question their ability, or their intelligence.

Labelling something as "wrong" rarely works in poker, since there are many different approaches, many different styles, and some approaches work better in some circumstances and some work better in others.

When person A calls another member "stupid" (or worse) it tells us more about Person A than it tells us about the target of their anger.

Looking back, I can find nowhere that anyone called you an "irrogant asshole" -- no need to correct me if I missed it. You seem to be angry. I'm not sure why.

Stick to discussing the poker, and not the people.

All the best,
VS

Originally posted by EmiyaKiritsugu
Oh right, now I'm labeled as irrogant asshole because I try to help by questioning wrong argumentation
It looks like I have no other way but to surrender. Casey knows what he do - in January 2020 he was playing NL2, in October 2021 he is still punishing nl2 "regs". Its clear that time and financial investments into poker studies are paying off.

This is exactly why this forum has fallen - you try to help, but instead of simple 'thank you' you get accused of being asshole because people stuck forever on nl2 know better their aquarium. EOT from me.

In january 2020 I was playing 2nl for 2-3 months, then I had some personal things happen to where I could not play. I stopped and started studying again this June. I’ve been playing for a few short months and I see improvements. I’m not an amazing player and know I have holes to fix but I am losing the minimum while I improve. I don’t need to rush up stakes I will move up when I feel I’m crushing. My last comment about all of this. Have a good rest of your day!

If i would play NL 2, i would just exploit the fact that i can expect the playerpool to call more lightly. So going for a big checkraise on the flop and bet/broke turn or bet bet/broke river is in my opinion the only play on NL 2. Also you are asking if you can fold your Set on the river, while you should asking yourself if you gonna setmine in the sb against probably 2 whales, why are you not getting the money already in on the flop.

You see the logic here. On one side you are setmining on the other hand you are too passive if you succeed.

Just wanted to add that to the hand.

Certainly not want to revive this thread, but thanks all!

Originally posted by LMcrow
If i would play NL 2, i would just exploit the fact that i can expect the playerpool to call more lightly. So going for a big checkraise on the flop and bet/broke turn or bet bet/broke river is in my opinion the only play on NL 2. Also you are asking if you can fold your Set on the river, while you should asking yourself if you gonna setmine in the sb against probably 2 whales, why are you not getting the money already in on the flop.

You see the logic here. On one side you are setmining on the other hand you are too passive if you succeed.

Just wanted to add that to the hand.

I always adjust my aggressiveness according to what I think the handstrength of my opponent is ...

But you make a very good point ... I should play more straightforward on these stakes and just jam these hands early. I think about thinks too much ... I used to play nl10 for a while a long time ago, I don't know how nl10 is now because that's was really a long time ago, but maybe the stakes are too different. I should grind out nl2 building my bankroll a little bit and keep it very simple. I feel like I can't really learn to play 'poker' here, but only build my roll, as the mistakes these players make are not the same mistakes players higher up will make...
And also the mistakes I make now might be good plays later on and vica versa