ICM... Push any two cards situation.

The scenario you describe isn't complete without knowing what the stack sizes are for CO and BU
Assuming the following:
 4 players left
 3 paid — so we're on the bubble.
 SB covers BB

Now let's assume that CO has 1 BB left.
They're forced all-in on the next hand.
Not only is SB able to shove any two, BB must fold any two.

Here's how it looks in Hold'em Resources free Nash calculator
https://www.holdemresources.net/nashicm?action=calculate&s1=1000&s2=3000&s3=20000&s4=10000&p1=50&p2=30&p3=20&sb=500&bb=1000&ante=0
Although in the exact numbers I used BB can call with QQ+

You are making money by pushing because villain is losing money by calling, thus he should fold.
But if he's a retard and calls with a hand he shouldn't, both your push and his call are -ev and the only people making money are the players that folded before you.

Also, there is a huge difference in your shoving range depending on how much every player has in their stack. In the hand you give, you don't mention how much others have. If there is another stack with 1 or 2 BBs, he will be comitted to be all in in a couple of hands, making the BB having to fold QQ. Maybe even KK.

So... it's not about how tight or how loose a player is. It's about getting reads on who's ICM aware. A guy can still be loose but pretty tight near the bubble.

Now if that was simple enough, brace yourself... Some players that are actual regular winners call with hands that they theoretically shouldn't. How does that make sense? Well, that is a "spite call" and he's investing some EV loss if he sees you as a regular, so that you don't push any2 vs him in the future games you play.

Then there are card sharing players and/or bots and colluding players that soft play vs each other but try to eliminate others... Yeah, SNGs can be a trap if you are not careful.

Sorry, I forgot to add the stacks of the two players who folded. Like in the article, CO: 8000 and BU: 2000.

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
The scenario you describe isn't complete without knowing what the stack sizes are for CO and BU
Assuming the following:
 4 players left
 3 paid — so we're on the bubble.
 SB covers BB

Now let's assume that CO has 1 BB left.
They're forced all-in on the next hand.
Not only is SB able to shove any two, BB must fold any two.

Ok, I never thought of that scenario :P. Now I can see myself making that move... but CO has a bit more than 13BB and BU a bit more than 3BB. Maybe is BU stack the reason for this anytwo?

Originally posted by nsavov
Now if that was simple enough, brace yourself... Some players that are actual regular winners call with hands that they theoretically shouldn't. How does that make sense? Well, that is a "spite call" and he's investing some EV loss if he sees you as a regular, so that you don't push any2 vs him in the future games you play.

Then there are card sharing players and/or bots and colluding players that soft play vs each other but try to eliminate others... Yeah, SNGs can be a trap if you are not careful.

Ok that is a crazy high level of thought against regulars.... That scared me to be honest. Thanks for that info.... maybe in 10 years from now I manage to think that far ahead hahaha.

Yeah, I have been warned against bots and co-op players, but SnG are just a stepping stone for me to move to MTT. Right now my bankroll in Pokerstars only allows me to play SNG. I can always try tournaments tho

Originally posted by BroteusSK
Yeah, I have been warned against bots and co-op players, but SnG are just a stepping stone for me to move to MTT. Right now my bankroll in Pokerstars only allows me to play SNG. I can always try tournaments tho

In the future, you might want to consider spins.
Very difficult for players to collude.
There are different ranges to consider, and different tactics.

If you are going to continue with SnGs consider a database (if you don't have one already) — there are a few of them available on the Poker Tools page. Most have free trials.

You will begin to see the same players again and again.
Watch how they play against each other — and take notes.

All the best,
VS

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by BroteusSK
Yeah, I have been warned against bots and co-op players, but SnG are just a stepping stone for me to move to MTT. Right now my bankroll in Pokerstars only allows me to play SNG. I can always try tournaments tho

In the future, you might want to consider spins.
Very difficult for players to collude.
There are different ranges to consider, and different tactics.

If you are going to continue with SnGs consider a database (if you don't have one already) — there are a few of them available on the Poker Tools page. Most have free trials.

You will begin to see the same players again and again.
Watch how they play against each other — and take notes.

All the best,
VS

I use hand2note free trial. I learned how to use the vpip and pfr during game time to get an idea of how they play. Because my memory sucks and there too many players. I wait until I get 100 known hands. I also kinda learned how to review the biggest loss/win hands and see where I went wrong, I just don't have the time to analyse every session, but when I don't know, I post them on the hand evaluation.

Yeah, I would love to try some spins when I get the time, specially because I still haven't a slightest clue of how to play heads up against many player types (when I'm not the chip leader). The strategy and hand range should be the same in that case for both fullring and spin right?

I always recommend the $1 18-45man On Demand SNGs for players that plan to go the tournament route. Those have 10min blind levels and there are plenty of bad players and you have plenty of time to wait for a good spot and get some chips from them. Also there are plenty of tight and loose passive players that you can steal from when the time is right.

The thing is, those SNGs don't show up for players in some countries. Just look for some low MTSNG with a slow structure and check out how you like it. It's the best place to learn tournaments. Don't bother with the 18mans though, they are closer to an STT than an MTT strategy-wise.

The 80man+ PKOs On Demand are also pretty good but they start with only 50bb and are turbos so you better get some roll before jumping into them.

Originally posted by nsavov
I always recommend the $1 18-45man On Demand SNGs for players that plan to go the tournament route. Those have 10min blind levels and there are plenty of bad players and you have plenty of time to wait for a good spot and get some chips from them. Also there are plenty of tight and loose passive players that you can steal from when the time is right.

The thing is, those SNGs don't show up for players in some countries. Just look for some low MTSNG with a slow structure and check out how you like it. It's the best place to learn tournaments. Don't bother with the 18mans though, they are closer to an STT than an MTT strategy-wise.

The 80man+ PKOs On Demand are also pretty good but they start with only 50bb and are turbos so you better get some roll before jumping into them.

I guess you are talking about pokerstars, am i right?

Originally posted by BroteusSK
Right now my bankroll in Pokerstars only allows me to play SNG. I can always try tournaments tho

Originally posted by nsavov
The thing is, those SNGs don't show up for players in some countries. Just look for some low MTSNG with a slow structure and check out how you like it. It's the best place to learn tournaments. Don't bother with the 18mans though, they are closer to an STT than an MTT strategy-wise.

Yeah it is my case. I live in Portugal and I only have 27 man turbo with 1€. I also noticed that I only play with Portugal, Spain and France players, maybe it is to not overpopulate the micro limit SNG or it is a European/Portuguese law, I don't know. I only know that sometimes, to get into a SNG takes 3 hours (specially in the morning). Hope it is the first case because I want to be able to multitable in the future and the next limit doesn't get even worse, in case I manage to get to the next one.

Until now I haven't noticed people colluding with each other, maybe they do it too well or maybe for them 0,50€ regular SNG aren't that profitable.

Originally posted by BroteusSK
I only know that sometimes, to get into a SNG takes 3 hours (specially in the morning). Hope it is the first case because I want to be able to multitable in the future and the next limit doesn't get even worse, in case I manage to get to the next one.

Mornings are not good for those games. You have to mix up games and limits if you want to play at this time.

Yes, any 2 pushes are common part of your play in SNGs and MTTs.
Especially on the bubble (against the players who knows what bubble is) and in shallow situations about 5-6 bb left on the BU facing players who overfolds blinds (vast majority in fact). It requires some experience but you will do it routinely in your carreer