[Closed] 0.25/0.50 hand from public private coaching 31.08

Like I said during the coaching, I see no better way to get more Value against weaker hands or to loss less against better hands.

Originally posted by Berliner1982
Like I said during the coaching, I see no better way to get more Value against weaker hands or to loss less against better hands.

What range do you give him? (I'll post later the next day.)

I personally would give him AK, QQ+, maybe TT and JJ if he is loose. Any other hand make no sense if we declear Villain to be a Unknown (theirfore reasonable), since our 3-bet from SB indicates a strong hand.

Hi,

my first post in the english forum today

Why not play the HU-Standardline CR Flop/Bet Turn?

Our Hand is strong enough, since we are only behind to KK. When we check-raise AK will almost ever downcall and somtimes we will induce a 3bet from AK on the flop.

I think we got lucky, that we earned 3 BB from QQ. Normally we won´t get that much value.
When Hero donks the flop, Villain must set Hero at least on a King or better, since Hero wouldn´t donk with anything worse (TT,JJ) into the PreflopCapper in this spot.
So a thinking Villain would usually release his QQ to a bet on the Turn, leaving us with 1 SB. When we CR on the flop we will usually get 1 SB more against QQ.

For max. value I would prefer CR Flop/Bet Turn.

I try solving it with mathematics. (To make it not to complicated I don't calculate with the outs we or he has. Feel free to calculate it if you want so.)

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Line: Donk/call flop, check/call turn, donk/call river.

Hand counts for:

- AK: 6
- QQ: 6
- AA: 1
- KK: 3

Now let's see what we gain with the above line:

- 12 times 3BB (AK, QQ)
- 1 time 0BB (AA)
- 3 times -4BB (KK)

= 24BB/16 = 1,5BB each time.

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Line: Check/raise flop, bet/3-bet/calldown turn, bet/call river.

Now lets say we play the standard valueline with check/raise flop, bet turn and bet river.
If he 3-bets the flop we check/raise the turn and calldown to a 3-bet.
If he raises the turn we 3-bet and calldown to a cap.
if he raises the river we just call.

I think he will call our check/raise and raise the turn with AA, KK and AK.
The more difficult part is how he plays with QQ. Maybe he folds the QQ to our check/raise, at the turn, at the river or even calls it down. I think if we calculate with the middle we have a good approximation.
He will cap with KK on the turn.

- 6 times 5BB (AK: 1BB flop, 3BB turn, 1BB river)
- 1 time 0BB (AA: split)
- 6 times 1,5BB (QQ: 1BB flop, 1BB turn, 1BB river divided by 2)
- 3 times -6BB (KK: - 1BB flop, - 4BB turn, - 1BB river)

= 21BB/16 = 1,3125BB each time.

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Line: Check/raise flop, bet/calldown turn, bet/call river.

Now let's consider fdwarriors line:

"if he call or raise flop donk with QQ, he would definitely cd it after c/r, so the best line here is to c/r flop, bet/cd turn because i think villain would raise turn only with

KK - 3 combos
AA - 1 combo
AK - 6 combos ( not 10 ciRith ) with weight of 0.5"

- 3 times -4BB (KK: 1 BB flop, 2 BB turn, 1 BB river)
- 1 time 0BB (AA: split)
- 6 times 3BB (QQ: 1BB flop, 1BB turn, 1BB river)
- 6 times 3,5BB (AK: 1BB flop, 1,5BB turn (he will raise the turn 50$ of the time), 1BB river)

= 27BB/16 = 1,6875BB each time.

So we got the same result and we are indifferent in which line we play.

EDIT1: Corrected a mistake and added fdwarriors line.

EDIT2: Changed the played line by Classicals note. (It's even lower because of my mistake pointed out at EDIT1.)

"Minor point: against KK we lose 4BB, as villain will raise the river. We won't fold to a river raise, will we? This makes 1,8BB EV"

EDIT3: Added the "line-headers".

Öhm honestly, why should Villain call our Check/Raise on the Flop? Even if he do, he will fold to our bet on the Turn, since he has to assume that he only has 2 Outs, if we do not hold a Set already.

So I would say that we would get 1 BB flop / deviated 2 = 0.5 BB.

Because some players are bad?

Why should a reasonable Villain downcall QQ against Heros Donk? He must assume that Hero has a King or better. Personally I would fold QQ to a bet on the Turn.

Correct. But I see no read that he was reasonable... he is declared as unknown or?

yes

Originally posted by ciRith
- 16 times 3BB (AK, QQ)
- 1 time 0BB (AA)
- 3 times -3BB (KK)

= 39BB/20 = 1,95BB each time.

Minor point: against KK we lose 4BB, as villain will raise the river. We won't fold to a river raise, will we? This makes 1,8BB EV

Good point. At least one who supports my line. ♦

if he call or raise flop donk with QQ, he would definitely cd it after c/r, so the best line here is to c/r flop, bet/cd turn because i think villain would raise turn only with

KK - 3 combos
AA - 1 combo
AK - 6 combos ( not 10 ciRith ) with weight of 0.5

so
3 times -3bb (KK)
3 times +3bb (AK)
1 time we pay less rake (AA)

Hmm why 6? 2 aces and 3 king
----> 5! / (2! * (5 - 2)!) = 10

Wher is my mistake?

Ah Kh
Ah Ks
Ah Kc
As Kh
As Ks
As Kc

makes 6 Combos.

Stuipid maths. I'll correct it.

At least it seems my line is better then the standard Line c/r Flop, Bet Turn. ♦ So I´m happy.

They are both equal but I doubt he will raise with the Q if he iss passiv nor will he calldown a Q when he isn't stuipid.... so without reads I think you can play both lines. ^^

Btw he won't raise a King in your line at the river? I think I have to edit it again..... ^^ so you can hate me again. ♦

Honestly I do not figure which calculation is for which line. ♦