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[Closed] [Simple] 4bet shove scenario

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Alverine
Joined: 31.01.2009

I know this is a BSS evalution forum, and this hand is from a mtt, but this is a simple scenario that I need a math solution. I have the ranges for villain's actions but i cant find out my range. Just want to know if im doing the right calculations:

$400/$800 Ante $100 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG buzzcorks ($16,965)
UTG+1 soydelmillo ($19,794)
MP1 Hero ($25,689)
MP2 LUFCBas ($19,679)
CO jhzu ($960)
BTN bab_pak ($26,316)
SB Funvil ($8,293)
BB homanga ($23,508)

Pre-Flop: ($2,000, 8 players) Hero is MP1 A♥ J♥
2 folds, Hero raises to $1,720, 1 fold, jhzu goes all-in $860, bab_pak raises to $4,400, 3 folds

===============/////////////////////===============

I disconsidered the shortack eq and considered him just dead money, just so i can calculate easier

Want to know what range can I shove after the 3bet:

Villain's 3bet range: 5.9%
Villain's Calling 4bet range: 3.6% - JJ+,TcTs,TdTh,TdTs,ThTs,AQs+,AKo

61% goes to showdown = 31% eq
39% I gain FE

My stack: 25589
His stack: 26216
Total pot after I raise: 8980

INCORRECT NUMBERS. SEE BELOW THE RIGHT ONE

fold: -1720 chips
push: and takedown(non-showdown): +8980 *(29%) (frequency of FE)= 2563
and get called: 54038*x% (total pot*%eq I have)= ((54038*x%)-25589)*(71%) (minus my stack * SD frequency)
total push EV: FE EV + Showdown EV
((54038*x%)-25589)*(71%) + 2563

calculating push to be better than a fold

push EV > fold EV

((54038*x%)-25589)*(71%) + 2563 > -1720 (x is the EQ I need)

x > 36,19% -> So my range here is JJ+,AK

=================

Am i making the right calculations? I dont know if I can count the chips that I opened with at non SD eq.


2 replies
Alverine
Joined: 31.01.2009

Just saw I already made some mistakes

Villain's 3bet range: 5.9%
Villain's Calling 4bet range: 3.6% - JJ+,TcTs,TdTh,TdTs,ThTs,AQs+,AKo

61% goes to showdown = 31% eq
39% I gain FE

My stack: 25589
His stack: 26216
Total pot after I raise: 8980

fold: 0
push: and takedown(non-showdown): +8980 *(29%) (frequency of FE)= 2563
and get called: 54038*x% (total pot*%eq I have)= ((54038*x%)-25589)*(61%) (minus my stack * SD frequency)
total push EV: FE EV + Showdown EV
((54038*x%)-25589)*(61%) + 2563

calculating push to be better than a fold

push EV > fold EV

((54038*x%)-25589)*(61%) + 2563 > 0 (x is the EQ I need)

x > 39,57% -> So my range here is JJ+,AK (range still havent changed)


TheLastNail
Joined: 30.05.2008

fisrtly, sorry i will not put in exact values, i dont want to just waste time computing, i ll give u the formula, u can do it.

if this was a cashgame and u had a big enough sample to do assumptions based also on positions (which i strongly doubt u have+this is a MTT where ofc its going to be quite different with payouts etc) then this:

u combine:

A, when he folds: (eq in the capped pot wiht the sser)*(size of the capped pot) + (feq on the bser)*(amount of the remaining dead money in the pot which u take)

i dont know where u get the value of "total pot after i raise" - this is just not important at all. amount of dead money outside of the side pot is 4400 from what i can see.

B, when u get it in w bser: ; (now: u should calculate with the tiny side pot still, but since it will be quite hard and pretty negligible to the main pot, u can forget abt it without much of a mistake at all, u can however do it by decomposing into a smaller part with a small pot where u put ur equity against 2 ranges)

(1- feq on the bser) * {(ur equity vs his range when called)*(size of the overall pot when allin) - (amount u have to still invest from ur stack)}

this will be a negative number

and finally u just put this together: A + B and see if that is >0.

so that should be it, hope i didnt forget sth;

still: u need a ridiculously big samplesize and consider positional (not overal !) stats. With the sser in, his range is deffo even stronger, but maybe more merged coz of him having good equity on the dead money and big feq on u.

so the above calculation with overall 3bet/4bet/folding ranges will be pretty irrelevant here.