[Closed] Sunday Brawl

I 3bet to around 12k. probs fold to jam

I believe given my reads on that guy he would have called a 3bet with that hand since i was in the SB + he was playing very loose preflop. I think i should have shoved preflop given his loose range

only Qs , Ts , 96 & J9 beating you here . if he has one of those hands think pretty sure I would go broke as well ,

think your bit to deep to shove pre so prefer to call than to 3bet/fold

Originally posted by curnow
only Qs , Ts , 96 & J9 beating you here . if he has one of those hands think pretty sure I would go broke as well ,

think your bit to deep to shove pre so prefer to call than to 3bet/fold

dont see what callin oop achieves. You cant exactly set mine with these stack sizes.

if he calls u can c bet fold alot of flops and go broke if u hav an over pair or a draw.

interesting hand,

if he was agro loose (something like 28/25) -> i'll shove preflop

or at least 3 bet him to ~14k, fold to a shove, u cant call profitably imo with that hand oop vs loose oponent with those stack sizes with your hand

as played i prefer bigger bet on turn ~10k,

on river i'll check/call

check for bluff induce and call cos he wont call a shove with worse hand then yours so no value in shoving imo

as hand was payed on turn i cant see him calling a value bet with worse, maybe AT,JJ,
but i can see him betting if it is check to him on river a ton of missed draws that he called on turn with (hands like AXdd, KJ, + any random float/bluffs) also i think that he might make thin value bet with AT/JJ, Qx

so imo
best line should be 3bet(fold to a shove) or shove preflop

as played bet bigger on turn check/call river for bluff induce

regards ,
therebuz

p.s. as played on river is very ugly spot ,
imo i'll narrow his range (with your reads, agro loose) to J9, 96s, QT, 77, TT, 33, QQ and maybe weird played AA,KK (thin value shove on river ) i dont think that he have a lot of bluffs in his range (if he has any) tbh and u cant beat much of his value betting range,

thats why with that stack to pot ratio i prefer to check on river to induce a bluff cos value betting is very marginal/thin and i see more value in checking to induce bluff, and btw even if he pot bet on river and he had u beat, u will have still >15BB stack left after you call

very interesting read man.. i think your analysis was the perfect game to be played

3bet/folding this hand is pretty bad as our equity vs his ship range is just too good. I don't hate 3bet/getting it in against some, but my default here is to flat OOP. Postflop is fine, I probably make it 12k or so on the turn though instead.

Originally posted by bonebt
interesting hand,

if he was agro loose (something like 28/25) -> i'll shove preflop

No, then it is better to 3-bet/call.

as played i prefer bigger bet on turn ~10k,

Yes. bet bigger on turn.

p.s. as played on river is very ugly spot ,
imo i'll narrow his range (with your reads, agro loose) to J9, 96s, QT, 77, TT, 33, QQ and maybe weird played AA,KK (thin value shove on river ) i dont think that he have a lot of bluffs in his range (if he has any) tbh and u cant beat much of his value betting range,

thats why with that stack to pot ratio i prefer to check on river to induce a bluff cos value betting is very marginal/thin and i see more value in checking to induce bluff, and btw even if he pot bet on river and he had u beat, u will have still >15BB stack left after you call

What exactly is he bluffing with?

3bet getting it in is kinda vs crazy agro ok, but vs that kinda player i just prefer to over shove preflop (i dont realy like to call of with 88) but if we make it 13-14k and agro player 4 bet it to ~30k I'm ok sometimes to 5 bet shove there vs that kinda player

@chenny8888
about 3beting folding vs his shiping range, imo is true that we have good EQ vs his shiping range (but imo this is not a cash game and chips gain dont have same value as chip loose so we got to pass some times marginal +ev spots in MTT's) and btw imo best we can hope is a flip vs random loose guy + 44-77,AX if he is realy realy agro,
i do agree that we r turning our hand into bluff if we 3bet/fold preflop but thats ok with me cos we r picking up our 3bet freq and 88 is ok hand to do that with in that spot with that stack sizes

imo calling preflop as a default with those stack sizes is ok too
but we r obv not playing for set value and we got to call 1 bet on flop and play guessing game on boards like A95/ k93, or maybe sometimes getting in on some boards on flop and play praying game

@Anssi
if he is agro he will bet on river all his missed draws (ex KJ,AXdd,K9s etc) + some thin value bets (JJ, Q9, AT, weird played overpairs) + all his value hands 2 pair hands, sets, str8,

TheRebuz

it's really not an OK hand to 3bet/fold with. when we 3bet we're really putting our opponents in a push or fold situation, but if they do call the 3bet (aka a HOODFLAT) we're not going to get many favourable flops for us. And if they ship... well K5o or A6o is obviously a better hand to 3bet bluff with because of the blocker effects. 88 blocks nothing in his get it in range.

I would even say 3bet/folding this here is never anything except a VERY big mistake.

as for the river: we beat 2 pair hands like T8, 87. both of these hands I would expect to always take this line, possibly shove the turn instead though. But yeah... it's a call.

@chenny8888
we r not blufing with 88 we r raising for value/protection vs agro vilain cos as u say we wont get any good flops (same goes when we just call oop we wont get favorable flops also)
and if/when we fold to villain shove it looks like we were bluffing

and btw you never say whats your plan when you just call oop preflop

Originally posted by bonebt
3bet getting it in is kinda vs crazy agro ok, but vs that kinda player i just prefer to over shove preflop (i dont realy like to call of with 88) but if we make it 13-14k and agro player 4 bet it to ~30k I'm ok sometimes to 5 bet shove there vs that kinda player

@chenny8888
about 3beting folding vs his shiping range, imo is true that we have good EQ vs his shiping range (but imo this is not a cash game and chips gain dont have same value as chip loose so we got to pass some times marginal +ev spots in MTT's) and btw imo best we can hope is a flip vs random loose guy + 44-77,AX if he is realy realy agro,
i do agree that we r turning our hand into bluff if we 3bet/fold preflop but thats ok with me cos we r picking up our 3bet freq and 88 is ok hand to do that with in that spot with that stack sizes

imo calling preflop as a default with those stack sizes is ok too
but we r obv not playing for set value and we got to call 1 bet on flop and play guessing game on boards like A95/ k93, or maybe sometimes getting in on some boards on flop and play praying game

@Anssi
if he is agro he will bet on river all his missed draws (ex KJ,AXdd,K9s etc) + some thin value bets (JJ, Q9, AT, weird played overpairs) + all his value hands 2 pair hands, sets, str8,

TheRebuz

if he is aggro he is not checking back KJ

After thinking the hand a bit more:

This is all speculation, we don't really know much about the player.

It is kinda hard to put him on hand here. What does check behind on the flop? He probably bets all decent draws, all combo hands and probably all complete air hands. So what does he not bet? QQ? TT? QT? 22-66? 7x? Ax? On turn with your weak bet I guess he just flats with Adxd and KJ (which he shouldn't have) + some weaker combo draws like J8.

But yeah, after thinking it through it is better to check river. Your hand looks very strong if you bet river as well and all draws missed so he can very well turn his hand into bluff. He will probably check behind all 8x and 7x and worse, but he probably wouldn't call your bet with them anyways.

What did he have? Since you posted the hand, I'd say QQ and TT is very likely. I'd be surprised if he had J9 since people normally would c-bet it on flop or raise it on turn since flush draw opens which you could very well have with your turn action.

Agree with chenny, 3bet/fold would be a big mistake. He named the reasons.

Bet turn more. Definitely bet/call river. We are not representing much and he can even valuepush the river with worse.

does our range look face up by flatting 88 here in the sb?

what else do we flat here?

he can't really put us on a range of 88 and 88 only since he is an unknown. I don't think balance is an issue here at all.

Originally posted by 00Visor
Agree with chenny, 3bet/fold would be a big mistake. He named the reasons.

Bet turn more. Definitely bet/call river. We are not representing much and he can even valuepush the river with worse.

agree to chenny and visor.
i also defend normally altough its pretty faceup.
Against some players i def. bet river for value and call (because your line looks a bit bluffy as well).
Against other players (more agressive types) i would play check/call to induce a bluff.