taavi1337 - noob learning FL

Originally posted by taavi1337
I don't know about the others, but DC is very very good. But for micros PokerStrategy materials are more than enough imo.

I'd say that it DC teaches a somehow different style compared to Pokerstrategy.

Although it is a personal preference. Pokerstrategy content is much more broader - articles, quizes, videos, live coachings. Videos cannot be the only source of improvement IMO.

Problem with some of the videos on DC is that some are outdated, understanding the logic of a play varies from video series to another, standard length of video is a bit more that I can handle at once(assuming watching a video includes making notes/writing questions about a play, rewinding) and in the new environment after Black friday things aren't going to get much better regarding the content.

I think that still the English FL community has improved, but still can improve more regarding FL content. More quizes, innovations at the live coachings, rewriting/revisiting some of the core articles is a must in todays FL climate.

Also knowing some German can provide you much more content in the German section, that no other coaching site can offer.

Taavi bad news on FTP... Did you keep all of it there.

Fortunately I was on a Norway trip from June 25th - July 6th and without internet. Had a great time and the FullTilty shit didn't affect me. I just heard of it yesterday but I read that the site will hopefully come back online soon. I'm almost not worrying at all even though I have about 2/3 of my roll there.

It's time to check my June results... hoho, I ran quite hot:

*bow* to Dawnfall for leading me on the right track

I hope that I'll manage to put in more volume in July. In June there was lots of volleyball and relaxing, which was just vital after the army. Also I'm not multitabling that hard any more, I can even 1-table without getting bored

I've recovered from the tiltish mindset that I had in the army. Life's good.

I'm playing 0.5/1 on 888, the roll is ca $600. The rest is locked on FullTilt.

Weird hand from the maniacal 888 field:

Cassava Poker $0.50/$1 Limit Hold'em - 6 players

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with A 9
1 fold, MP calls, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP caps!, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls

Flop: (16 SB) 4 J 4 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB folds, MP calls, CO calls

Turn: (11 BB) J (3 players)
Hero bets, MP folds, CO calls

River: (13 BB) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls

Final Pot: 15 BB
Hero shows A 9
CO mucks Q K

hey tavi

why you raise on the flop??

the limp call of MP are Ax right.

but we are with more 3 players, the board is good but ours A hight is the best with more 3 players?

MP is a 89/26 guy who has limp/raised lots of trash and I give no credit to his preflop actions. Also he likes to raise a lot preflop and give up postflop if he doesn't hit.

CO is 67/22 and BB is playing 70/0 after a small sample so their ranges are also very wide.

So when everybody checks on the flop, I believe that CO will bet out with almost 100% of his range because of his aggresiveness. I don't like calling here because we're often facing better Ax and if somebody has a Jack we're pretty much drawing dead.

I decide to raise to kick overcards and hopefully some better Ax out. If I get reraised I'm done with the hand. But at the moment I believe I'm ahead of everybody's range.

Turn is a very good card as I now split vs better Ax and I bet again to protect vs overcards and flushdraws. River is standard.

yes its true

but is a good play?? the majoraty of this player can t fold any thing, they had a slow AF and a big WTS

Given our reads (in particular CO betting 100% here and MP spewing pre and playing fit/fold post) one extra small bet on the flop seems like a small price to pay for potential cleaning up many outs across the various villains.

Even showdown-bound villains can often find a fold facing two to the face, and its hardly a disaster if they call with, say, QTs.

If CO comes back over the top, you are going to have to call that flop bet for outs in such a big pot, and for the possibility that he is raising again with a flush draw (if he gets 3 callers he is perfectly justified in doing this purely on equity grounds. Indeed, ff he can get you to fold your hand its a no-brainer fist-pump move for him).

Raise on flop is great in my opinion

Hand is nicely played.

Cassava Poker $0.50/$1 Limit Hold'em - 6 players -

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with 9 9
3 folds, BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, BTN caps!, Hero calls, BB calls

Flop: (12 SB) Q 3 Q (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN bets, Hero raises, BB calls, BTN folds

Turn: (8.5 BB) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls

River: (10.5 BB) A (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls

Final Pot: 12.5 BB
Hero shows 9 9
BB mucks 9 2

Cassava Poker $0.50/$1 Limit Hold'em - 5 players -

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is CO with 3 3
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps!, SB calls, BB calls

Flop: (12 SB) 8 J 4 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB caps!, Hero calls

Turn: (10.5 BB) Q (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls

River: (12.5 BB) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Final Pot: 12.5 BB
BB shows 5 K
Hero shows 3 3
Hero wins 11.88 BB
(Rake: $0.62)

Not sure what read you had on BB to put all that action in with the 33 hand.

Needless to say the flop wasn't what you were looking for, and you are behind a random hand already at that point.

Why would u wanna put so much money with 33 esp. preflop?
There's gonna be a ton of flops u wont like its gonna be a 3 way pot also if the BB is a maniac its better to leave him the initiative preflop and then u can kick the SB away on good flops with a raise.

As played u had to invest 2BB on the flop where u might be ahead or really behind hoping the SB will fold some equity and the maniac missed.

Seems super optimistic and i think its a bad play in the long run

I can't think of a draw on the turn that hasn't come in, and if we are behind we don't have odds to call down. This is a big problem with 33 - when behind, you often have very few outs to improve. The only time we are not behind is when villain has complete air as we are behind all value hands and all semi-bluffs as far as I can see.

Now, if we had a read that villain always plays super passively when he has a hand and is a complete maniac when he has air, I might be a bit more sympathetic. Alas such players are few and far between.

Preflop is close, I think you're right and just calling is better as we probably don't have enough equity to cap it 3way. I capped because I was hoping it looks stronger to SB who was quite a weak passive fish, but probably calling pre and raising BB's contibet would have been better play. I was quite surprised that BB didn't donk out on the flop, so far he had almost always pressed the raise button till the river in every hand. (It came out that this time he wanted to checkraise the whole field.)

SB was tanking a bit before he made the call on the flop, and it looked like he has a weakish hand, probably just overcards. To fold my threes there would have been a big mistake versus the maniac's anytwo-range, so I thought that 3betting is much better than coldcalling because it would kick SB out a decent amount of the times.

So, the main plan - to kick SB out and get it HU vs the maniac - worked out, now I just had to call him down. Valuebetting the river is too optimistic and fancy, even though I had seen him giving up his bluffs on scary rivers before (to give up means c/c for him to see what the villain has).

Originally posted by RedHeater
Not sure what read you had on BB to put all that action in with the 33 hand.

Needless to say the flop wasn't what you were looking for, and you are behind a random hand already at that point.

BB was a maniac raising every hand, and I wanted to get HU vs him and kick the other guy out. I believe he could fold stuff like 77 when I 3bet the flop.

Have you got stats on these guys? I mean, does BB open every hand, or just say 70%?

The idea behind the flop raise is a good one. The problem is you are building way to big of a pot here with a weak hand. I would think the flop hits SB range (depending on his stats) as well. These sorts of boards definitely hit a cold calling range.

The preflop raise - at least you have position I guess. Personally I would wait to go to war with something stronger. If the maniac is literally hitting the raise button every time I might fold this pre-flop and wait for something that is going to play better post.

Originally posted by RedHeater
Have you got stats on these guys? I mean, does BB open every hand, or just say 70%?

The idea behind the flop raise is a good one. The problem is you are building way to big of a pot here with a weak hand. I would think the flop hits SB range (depending on his stats) as well. These sorts of boards definitely hit a cold calling range.

The preflop raise - at least you have position I guess. Personally I would wait to go to war with something stronger. If the maniac is literally hitting the raise button every time I might fold this pre-flop and wait for something that is going to play better post.

He was playing 90/53/2.0/59 42% 3bet for 40 hands and I had observerd his moves carefully

I disagree with the preflop arguments to fold it. We have a pair and we're in position to the maniac. In this case we should open even looser with showdownvaluehands to get the moneys from him. We WANT to be in a hand with a guy like that. Also it's quite standard open anyway.

I would definitely open it normally. If you are sure to get head's up post flop then it would be fine. I don't know, I guess I would open it even in this situation - I was just putting it out there as a possibility. Its when it gets 3 way that its doing particularly badly - again, its nice to have a read on the guys between us and the BB.

I think the real problems start with the cap pre. If you want to put another bet in to try and force the other guy out, it would be better on good flops as gape0000 posted. As played, I would just let the flop check through as the board is not what we were looking for at all.

Cassava Poker $0.50/$1 Limit Hold'em - 5 players -

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is CO with 4 4
1 fold, Hero raises, BTN calls, SB calls, BB calls

Flop: (8 SB) T 7 J (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (4 BB) 7 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, BTN folds, SB raises, BB folds

River: (6 BB) Q (2 players)

Final Pot: 6 BB
Hero shows 4 4
SB shows 6 A
Hero wins 5.7 BB
(Rake: $0.30)

On the turn I was going to bet/fold but I got disconnected. I even clicked the fold button on the turn after his raise but it didn't respond. They have this disconnect protection thing so I went to the showdown

Wow, these games are crazy! What is the SB thinking? He has a perfect bluff catcher if you are getting frisky - and plenty of outs against the sort of hand you have - 6,T, J, A.

I might have been tempted to call down from the turn raise. After all, if SB really did want more action in on the turn, why didn't he bet out? Surely he would if he had a hand, rather than risk the turn getting checked through again.

Perhaps my mistake is trying to credit SB with thought processes when he isn't really thinking