[Closed] 89o UI too spewy?

in this spot i think our bluff has to fold out bottom or weak middle pairs to be profitable.

Assuming 10 outs and getting 3-bet 30% of the time he has to fold immediately 17% of the time for EV(call)<EV(raise) in a 4.5BB pot. I think this is going to be a bit to often.

Hi!

When I know nothing about my oponent Im assuming they donk flops with very wide ranges...weak draws/good draws,weak made hands(Ahigh,Btm pair) good hands(TP+) or even some air. Therefore you have to continue here and often at least untill river.

My default play here would be to just raise flop since I would do this with most made hands as well. This way you may get him to fold air,have some fold equity when he has Khigh,Ahigh on turn and also your equity with many outs to improve you is never bad, you may also take freecard on turn.If he 3bet you get much more info and you can safely fold turn ui.

As played its fine as well. You hit a very good bluffcard to make him fold Ahigh or other air and with double belly buster you are doing fine.

On the river I would bet again even though its probably the worst card to bluff on.He may still have some OESDs which will now fold or he may even fold 5x in this case even though its not that likely.On the other hand you are getting 1:7,5 and he doesnt need to fold much anyway. If river is K,A bet is mandatory and checking in this case would be terrible.

raising the flop here with 98 makes my brain hurt a little. some nitty tendency is screaming NOOOOO and brief flashes of money on fire keep popping into my head, madness really...

how certain are you that a raise on the flop is best as a default line? which turn cards would you tend to check back (A? K? 2?).

Lets be clear on one thing. Its soo very hard(imo impossible) to determine the best line on the flop when you know nothing of your oponent. In such spots you usually use the line that is clearly not bad and under some assumptions about your oponent helps in builing up your image.

I personaly fastplay a lot and therefore raise such donks a lot on the flop and most of these bad players slow down so there is first positive effect of flop raise.

From equity standpoint of view our equity on the flop is much higher than it will be on most turncard so we need less FE for that matter

And we also take initiative so we now control the hand and when we improve on turn to at least a pair we can valuebet much better as oposed to when we just call flop and then we turn to calldown when we hit 8,9 turn

In this case anything beside folding flop is fine.Even if you just go for calling 2 streets and folding river. This line also have merits...its pretty cheap,we dont nail ourselves when he has a hand and also it fakes a lot of SDvalue so when he checks at some point we now get to bluff much cheaper.

All these lines are fine but I think at the beggining its better to make an agressive image and your hand is good enough to semibluff here.

Im not even sure if Im taking a freecard here ever...maybe something like a 4 is bad for us and we should check back but we should certainly bet A ,K,Q since we easily represent these cards. Also 2 and 3 are candidates for checking...

Originally posted by Dawnfall26From equity standpoint of view our equity on the flop is much higher than it will be on most turncard so we need less FE for that matter

Sure, that makes sense. When the pot is bigger or it costs less, or our equity is higher or even when our implied odds are higher it is easier for us to semi-bluff raise we need fewer folds compared to the overall pot size.

On the first 2 counts we're doing well. As for equity this particular turn card can sometimes improve our equity... but in general i think you're right.

unless we improve to a strong hand our flop equity will tend to be higher than on the turn and theres no sense bluffing when we improve so if we think he'll fold often enough then yeah maybe a raise on the flop is a good option.

anyways, this is just my attempt to rationalize the idea. if i'm confused or missing something the feedback would be great.