Originally posted by EmanuelC16
You are comparing 2 players folding each hand on 24 tables to 9 players doing random stuff.
You don't know what you're talking about, for example there were hundreds of new tables opening near the 60 bill hand (mostly 6max microstakes) where every1 was insta folding.
After the 60 bill hand, those tables were instantly dead/broken.
Originally posted by malosanmaka
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
You are comparing 2 players folding each hand on 24 tables to 9 players doing random stuff.You don't know what you're talking about, for example there were hundreds of new tables opening near the 60 bill hand (mostly 6max microstakes) where every1 was insta folding.
After the 60 bill hand, those tables were instantly dead/broken.
The exact 2 players open 24 HU tables and fold each hand.
Player opens more SH and FR tables and folds against countless different opponents.
See the difference?
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
The exact 2 players open supposedly 24 HU tables and fold each hand. (dude said it in the clip, but I don't see any proof of the number of tables)Player opens more SH and FR tables and folds against countless different opponents who do the same thing.
See the difference?
Fixed.
PokerStars Road to 100 Billion - Rules & Regulations
8. During the Promotion, strict rules regarding player behaviour will be enforced. PokerStars reserves the right to take action against any player found to be abusing any aspect of the Promotion. Such action includes, but is not limited to, exclusion or suspension from the Promotion or from the Client, and the confiscation of rewards earned as a result of the abuse. The decision on what activity constitutes abuse of the Promotion lies with PokerStars management in its sole discretion.
Originally posted by moneymaker19
PokerStars Road to 100 Billion - Rules & Regulations8. During the Promotion, strict rules regarding player behaviour will be enforced. PokerStars reserves the right to take action against any player found to be abusing any aspect of the Promotion. Such action includes, but is not limited to, exclusion or suspension from the Promotion or from the Client, and the confiscation of rewards earned as a result of the abuse. The decision on what activity constitutes abuse of the Promotion lies with PokerStars management in its sole discretion.
That last part is crucial. They have yet to state that this kind of stuff is illegal, so it's pretty much unclear what will happen.
Originally posted by malosanmaka
Originally posted by moneymaker19
PokerStars Road to 100 Billion - Rules & Regulations8. During the Promotion, strict rules regarding player behaviour will be enforced. PokerStars reserves the right to take action against any player found to be abusing any aspect of the Promotion. Such action includes, but is not limited to, exclusion or suspension from the Promotion or from the Client, and the confiscation of rewards earned as a result of the abuse. The decision on what activity constitutes abuse of the Promotion lies with PokerStars management in its sole discretion.
That last part is crucial. They have yet to state that this kind of stuff is illegal, so it's pretty much unclear what will happen.
lol
Originally posted by malosanmaka
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
You are comparing 2 players folding each hand on 24 tables to 9 players doing random stuff.You don't know what you're talking about, for example there were hundreds of new tables opening near the 60 bill hand (mostly 6max microstakes) where every1 was insta folding.
After the 60 bill hand, those tables were instantly dead/broken.
This isn't collusion though. This is 9 or 6 players unknown to each other deciding of their own free will that they want to fold in order to get the hand over with quickly, and have more chance to hit a milestone.
Whereas when 2 players join 24 HU tables with each other and auto-fold every single hand unless it's a milestone hand this is obvious colluding.
Say in theory 2 people who don't know each other play heads up for real and "on their free will" decide to fold everything near the big milestone (on 1 tbl)
How do you discern these 2 cases? On 1-4 tbls it's ok, 4+tbls = collusion? 10 hands in a row = fine, 20 hands = collusion? Similar thing on 6max is ok, but HU = collusion?
And once again you bring up the 24 HU tables as a fact when I have yet to see confirmation that they indeed played that many.
Well of course you can't "prove" they colluded, but using any form of common sense then it's pretty obvious they were colluding. I'd say playing above 6 tables with the same person and open folding every single hand provides solid evidence that they were colluding for various reasons. One of which is; who plays the same HU reg on over 6 HU tables at the same time?
I don't even know why we're arguing about this tbh because, to anyone with the slightest bit of common sense, it's very obvious they were colluding in this case, and bringing up the fact that a lot of people fold on 6max tables as a defence is ridiculous.
Of course if you knew every player on a 6max or FR table and did the same thing then this is also colluding. But just deciding to fold by yourself and other players at the table deciding the same thing is not colluding.
guys, what are you talking about ????
NOBODY can play 24tables of HU at once, there is no god you play 24tables, so thats suspicion 1.
suspicion 2, how the hell they didnt rake anything ???
3. how the fuck can the same 2 guys be on 24 tables at once ??? its impossible, not profitable for any player unless you play with a pure donk (who never plays 24table anyway)
I bet anything that this guy wont get his money if he really sat at 24tables with the same guy, even if he didnt openfold 100% (which Im not 100% sure coz I didnt see them, but stars has every hand history so they know)
Originally posted by malosanmaka
Say in theory 2 people who don't know each other play heads up for real and "on their free will" decide to fold everything near the big milestone (on 1 tbl)How do you discern these 2 cases? On 1-4 tbls it's ok, 4+tbls = collusion? 10 hands in a row = fine, 20 hands = collusion? Similar thing on 6max is ok, but HU = collusion?
And once again you bring up the 24 HU tables as a fact when I have yet to see confirmation that they indeed played that many.
you need to know whats the meaning of collusion then.
according to webster dictionary:
secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose.
lols @ your argument
Originally posted by supeyrio
you need to know whats the meaning of collusion then.
according to webster dictionary:
secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose.lols @ your argument
I'm not making arguments for or against, I'm just asking questions.
I guess I could have used terms illegal/not allowed instead of collusion in my last post.
It is unclear whether abusing the promotion rules in this way is actually illegal because:
- these cases have happened before, people have won smaller milestones using the same technique -> Stars didn't do anything about it AFAIK
- on 2p2 some people posted stars support replies: "We are aware of those players who are sitting together on a high number of tables (often heads-up), and folding every hand in an effort to improve their chances of hitting a Milestone Hand. While this is not in the spirit of the promotion, it is also not against our rules and regulations." (part of that e-mail)
Originally posted by Wriggers
cut
My point wasn't whether they colluded or not, but whether folding many hands in a row on HU tbl during the promotion is illegal or not. (I guess I could have said it clearer) And if it is illegal where do you draw a line. (how many times, how many tables etc.)
You people are stuck too much on the fact that they (probably) did this intentionally/planned it/colluded/ or whatever u want to call it.
Watched the milestone hand and neither player raked anything in the previous hands as stated by one of the Pokerstars team during the period where they pause the table to gather in the railbirds.
Obvious collusion, anyone who had played any amount of poker knows that you rarely see two hands folded in a row at HU tables let alone 20+.
Should they be banned - No.
Should they lose the money - No.
Why?
Because the pokerstars software allowed them to do this and they were not colluding to make cash from other players only the poker room itself, which has not provided a failsafe against such activites, and tehrefore cannot (imo) enforce any kind of ruling here.
This pair just happened to win the milestone $70k hand - But I expect there was 100's more doing exactly the same, and if this is the case then should all those 100's of people be banned too?
Originally posted by MrMardyBum
Watched the milestone hand and neither player raked anything in the previous hands as stated by one of the Pokerstars team during the period where they pause the table to gather in the railbirds.Obvious collusion, anyone who had played any amount of poker knows that you rarely see two hands folded in a row at HU tables let alone 20+.
Should they be banned - No.
Should they lose the money - No.
Why?
Because the pokerstars software allowed them to do this and they were not colluding to make cash from other players only the poker room itself, which has not provided a failsafe against such activites, and tehrefore cannot (imo) enforce any kind of ruling here.
This pair just happened to win the milestone $70k hand - But I expect there was 100's more doing exactly the same, and if this is the case then should all those 100's of people be banned too?
Agree. PS promotion. Up to them to makes sure the promotion works. If these two players are allowed to open 24 tables between themselves and open fold every hand normally, why shouldn't they be able to do it on a day PS is running a promo?
If PS dont want ppl to be able to play poker this way, then they should introduce a software update that automatically kicks you off a table if you dont pay any rake for 25 hands or s/thing. But they didn't guard against this and now they have to deal with the bad publicity.
fml should have thought of that omg it's quite smart of them
but seriously fuck them
It's not like them playing 24 tables guarantees them the milestone hand. I know it's colluding but they improved their chances by what? 0.0024%? there were like 35K tables running, it's still lottery. They still got extremely lucky.
Just let it go people.
nope, the thing that pisses everyone off is that they didn't pay a single cent of rake. they earned our money by open folding and not contributing any revenue. HU is bad enough, not seeing a flop is even worse
Originally posted by MrMardyBum
Watched the milestone hand and neither player raked anything in the previous hands as stated by one of the Pokerstars team during the period where they pause the table to gather in the railbirds.Obvious collusion, anyone who had played any amount of poker knows that you rarely see two hands folded in a row at HU tables let alone 20+.
Should they be banned - No.
Should they lose the money - No.
Why?
Because the pokerstars software allowed them to do this and they were not colluding to make cash from other players only the poker room itself, which has not provided a failsafe against such activites, and tehrefore cannot (imo) enforce any kind of ruling here.
This pair just happened to win the milestone $70k hand - But I expect there was 100's more doing exactly the same, and if this is the case then should all those 100's of people be banned too?
Ye because that 100s of other does the same thing makes it right... wow some peoel are stupid.
They were not colluding to make cash of other players no but they colluded to have an advantages in this promotion, which is not fair to peoepl NOT colluding sitting on 24 6max/FR tables and actually raking in money which this whole shit is about.
Tell me how can 2 peoepl deciding upfront how to play the hands at a table not be collusion
