HUSNG's are absolutely pointless...

Originally posted by TakingAShot
Villain went nuts and accused me of using an ICM calculator after this hand.

Which is hilarious if this was a HUSNG, because the ICM doesn't even apply there.

Originally posted by Harrier88

Originally posted by TakingAShot
Villain went nuts and accused me of using an ICM calculator after this hand.

Which is hilarious if this was a HUSNG, because the ICM doesn't even apply there.

Believe me, I know. I'm just reiterating what he had to say lol. It was after I told him I had 36% draw to the nuts. I guess he doesn't know that a four flush on the flop has an 18% by turn and 18% by river. And, of course, that has absolutely nothing to do with ICM.

Yeah, I get you. I was just making fun of villain's comment.

Originally posted by Harrier88
Yeah, I get you. I was just making fun of villain's comment.

Something I'm dead set on doing at this point is not making fun of villain or underestimating him no matter what. It's not good for my game and it's certainly not good for my bottom line. That said - The range of skill in the game right now is WIDE. It's amazing how diverse the population is online. One guy literally doesn't understand how to read the board and then there's the the true pro's who play at nosebleeds to wake up in the morning.

What is a decent sample size of the turbos to begin assessing your ROI and analyzing your stats?

At least 1k games I think, but in HU it’s also good to make notes of the players.
Then you can pick weaker players if they sit 1 SNG already without another player in it yet.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Originally posted by SDK1987
At least 1k games I think, but in HU it’s also good to make notes of the players.
Then you can pick weaker players if they sit 1 SNG already without another player in it yet.

Cheers,
SDK1987

People are still down voting the thread

I was playing HUSNG's on Ignition for the past week+ but that's the entire thing: It's anonymous. Reads, bum hunting, etc - All out the window. So, I switched over to BetOnline to see what they have going on and they start @ $1.50, offering reg, turbo, and hyper all the way up to $200+ buy ins. So far, this looks like it's a bit weaker of a player pool on BOL.

I expect they don’t like the title, because playing HU SNG’s isn’t pointless

Originally posted by SDK1987
I expect they don’t like the title, because playing HU SNG’s isn’t pointless

I'm pretty sure people mostly disliked the over the top rants in the beginning of the thread, where poker players are described as "losers", "droolers" and "neckbeards", among other things. No surprise that this kind of stuff will get heavily downvoted on a dedicated poker forum.

Btw, isn't this thread kind of obsolete, now that OP is back to poker again?

Originally posted by Harrier88

Originally posted by SDK1987
I expect they don’t like the title, because playing HU SNG’s isn’t pointless

I'm pretty sure people mostly disliked the over the top rants in the beginning of the thread, where poker players are described as "losers", "droolers" and "neckbeards", among other things. No surprise that this kind of stuff will get heavily downvoted on a dedicated poker forum.

So what does downvoting the thread do for them? Make them feel better about the situation? Come on...that's pretty pathetic.

And yes - Of course the thread is outdated. A mod can feel free to delete or not delete. His or her call.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $150(BB)
BTN ($419)
HERO ($2581)

Dealt to Hero 3♥ 3♠

BTN Calls $75 (Rem. Stack: 269), HERO Raises To $2431 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), BTN Calls $269 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0)

Flop ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠

Turn ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠ 8♠

River ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠ 8♠ 3♦

BTN shows A♦ A♣

HERO wins $3000

The animations on Ignition are sick. I just saw a seasonal one where after I spiked the 3 on the riv, it showed a snowman over villain's tag and then showed it go up in flames and melt lol. That's pretty cool.

I've seen countless other animations, some tailored for specific situations.

Even in tournaments and specifically heads up tournaments/cash games - We're still thinking in and playing ranges, correct? How much does this differ in different types of games? My understanding is that it's less important in a HUSNG than a cash game but equally as important as a cash game in MTT's and all other scenarios. Does this basically nutshell it accurately?

Originally posted by TakingAShot
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $150(BB)
BTN ($419)
HERO ($2581)

Dealt to Hero 3♥ 3♠

BTN Calls $75 (Rem. Stack: 269), HERO Raises To $2431 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), BTN Calls $269 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0)

Flop ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠

Turn ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠ 8♠

River ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠ 8♠ 3♦

BTN shows A♦ A♣

HERO wins $3000

The animations on Ignition are sick. I just saw a seasonal one where after I spiked the 3 on the riv, it showed a snowman over villain's tag and then showed it go up in flames and melt lol. That's pretty cool.

I've seen countless other animations, some tailored for specific situations.

Nice trap of him, but if he limps a lot it's an unlucky spot for you.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
Even in tournaments and specifically heads up tournaments/cash games - We're still thinking in and playing ranges, correct? How much does this differ in different types of games? My understanding is that it's less important in a HUSNG than a cash game but equally as important as a cash game in MTT's and all other scenarios. Does this basically nutshell it accurately?

Thinking in ranges is in every game format important. Only different is that the ranges in HU is a lot wider than in other formats with more players at the table and makes it more complex I think.

Originally posted by SDK1987

Originally posted by TakingAShot
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $150(BB)
BTN ($419)
HERO ($2581)

Dealt to Hero 3♥ 3♠

BTN Calls $75 (Rem. Stack: 269), HERO Raises To $2431 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), BTN Calls $269 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0)

Flop ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠

Turn ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠ 8♠

River ($3000) 5♦ 9♣ T♠ 8♠ 3♦

BTN shows A♦ A♣

HERO wins $3000

The animations on Ignition are sick. I just saw a seasonal one where after I spiked the 3 on the riv, it showed a snowman over villain's tag and then showed it go up in flames and melt lol. That's pretty cool.

I've seen countless other animations, some tailored for specific situations.

Nice trap of him, but if he limps a lot it's an unlucky spot for you.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
Even in tournaments and specifically heads up tournaments/cash games - We're still thinking in and playing ranges, correct? How much does this differ in different types of games? My understanding is that it's less important in a HUSNG than a cash game but equally as important as a cash game in MTT's and all other scenarios. Does this basically nutshell it accurately?

Thinking in ranges is in every game format important. Only different is that the ranges in HU is a lot wider than in other formats with more players at the table and makes it more complex I think.

The hand I posted above was the only spot where I got it in as a big underdog all night. I made several good plays (for me) but I think the one below, from my most previous game, was the best simply since it was a legitimately hard call for me and not a spot in where I induced:

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $20(BB)
BTN ($1730)
HERO ($1270)

Dealt to Hero 7♦ 9♠

BTN Calls $10 (Rem. Stack: 1710), HERO Checks

Flop ($40) A♠ T♠ 6♠
HERO Checks, BTN Checks

Turn ($40) A♠ T♠ 6♠ 8♠
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $1710 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), HERO Calls $1250 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0)

River ($3000) A♠ T♠ 6♠ 8♠ T♦

BTN shows J♥ 7♠

BTN wins $460
HERO wins $2540

So, I had a nice ROI of about 18% going after 150 HUSNG's. Then? The same thing that has happened every single time I've started winning in poker: Beat, after beat, after beat, after beat. Took the ROI back down to 1.8. Just losing 8/10 games, all with the money in the middle as an 80%+ favorite. 95% lost. 97% lost. Countless 70-80%'s lost.

Luckily, I lost virtually nothing in the end but this certainly reminded me of why I've always been so hesitant to move to higher stakes. We're not talking about getting outplayed - We're talking about uncontrollable, never ending "negative variance" that just makes it absolutely impossible to make a profit. Guys, really: Things have gotten so nitty that $1 HUSNG's are taking an hour. 100+ hands. Guys just REFUSING to go all in without the absolute nuts. Down to the very last blind. Shove on them before then? They win their 18% all in, double up and are totally back in the game. Or it's a coin toss, they double up, and are back in the game. You need to be prepared to spend immense amount of time grinding for pennies in both the cash game and tournament game at this point. I've really exhausted just about all the time and energy I have for this.

I gave chess up. This is about to be next. 3.5 years of playing on and off and I've never gotten less out of anything lol. I don't even see the point to studying or using the software anymore. No matter how well I start playing, there's just a massive, massive run of bad beats from hell right around the corner. Considering that this is what most people experience in online poker - I really don't know if I'll be able to convince myself to sit down to this again tomorrow. I'm tired, hungry, just wasted a couple more weeks on this game for absolutely nothing and I couldn't even fathom playing this for higher stakes. I'm sorry but, I'm just never going to be ok with losing hundreds or thousands of dollars as the legitimate winner of the hand.

I know all about variance and sample sizes but 3.5 years of the same thing happening just over and over and ...come on. I see that if I spent time on this every day, studied, grinded out bonuses, killed myself playing all weekend every weekend, etc - I'd be able to make a bit of money and probably transition over to live nicely. I just don't see the point. By then I'd have made more money at anything else and actually have something to show for it.

Everyone keeps talking about hard work on this site and yet I've never, ever seen any game, job, sport, pursuit, ...ANYTHING, that rewards you less for your hard work than poker.

I think at the end of the day, you just have to enjoy the game for its own sake. Playing poker exclusively in order to make money is possible, and there are some pros who make a nice living out of it, but as you pointed out yourself, there are so many better and easier ways to make money, at least in the industrialized world, if this is the only motivation. I personally gave up on playing poker purely as a way to make money years ago, but that doesn't mean that I had to turn my back on this game completely. Ironically enough, I even ended up making tons more profit with my casual sessions of one or two Mixed Games MTTs per night than I used to back when I was grinding Zoom cash games for hours.

If you decide that poker is just not that fulfilling to you, that's completely fine. There are loads of other things to do, whether your goal is to make money, or to have some competitive fun.

Originally posted by Harrier88
I think at the end of the day, you just have to enjoy the game for its own sake. Playing poker exclusively in order to make money is possible, and there are some pros who make a nice living out of it, but as you pointed out yourself, there are so many better and easier ways to make money, at least in the industrialized world, if this is the only motivation. I personally gave up on playing poker purely as a way to make money years ago, but that doesn't mean that I had to turn my back on this game completely. Ironically enough, I even ended up making tons more profit with my casual sessions of one or two Mixed Games MTTs per night than I used to back when I was grinding Zoom cash games for hours.

If you decide that poker is just not that fulfilling to you, that's completely fine. There are loads of other things to do, whether your goal is to make money, or to have some competitive fun.

Honestly, I have forgotten about the money. It's not about that. It's a competitive game and I am tired of spending years now, outplaying opponents, and just repeatedly taking horrible beat after horrible beat. I swear, I never go more than a week of just playing the game and profiting before an unbelievable run of bad luck hits and doesn't leave until I've lost so much that I just can't stomach playing anymore.

If outplaying my opponent so rarely leads to winning....what's the point? Forget the money. Just take the game at face value as you said. What's the point? I put in the time, the energy, the work, I sit down and play the game, I beat my opponent fair and square and ...boom. The win goes to him for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

I just can't take that shit anymore. That's not how competition is supposed to work. It's not competitive at all, actually.

I have no problem with taking beats. I have a problem with taking 30 in a row every single time I start winning. You can't blame people for thinking these sites are rigged. I have never seen the kind of beats and "coolers" in live poker that I see online. Sure, they happen but absolutely nowhere near the frequency of which they happen online. There shouldn't be *any* difference between the live and online game. So why is there? I think it's pretty obvious what the deal is.

I sat back down now that I'm done with everything tonight and I won the first two. It's good that I'm staying here @ the nanostakes right now so that I can really get used to how absolutely, ridiculously wild the variance can be at times. I was absolutely crushing 10NL a few months go and then went on one of those nightmare runs and lost like $80 over just ...nothing. Bad runouts after the money was in. Really bad run outs. To see that your wins can be whitewashed by your losses so quickly is indeed more motivation to just squeeze out every drop of each and every hand. That's the thing though, as I said before: This has made the games really nitty and really, really difficult.

For the record: I just had a $1 HUSNG (turbo) last 107 hands over 34 minutes and reach the 300bb + 30 antes level. I had to knock the guy out 5 times in the end. Repeatedly catching his river after he was basically forced to go in with junk. In the end, I got it with a 64% shove when he was down to 1,000 chips because he kept folding his button with 3-6 bb's.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $20(BB)
BB ($1120)
HERO ($1880)

Dealt to Hero 3♣ 3♦

HERO Raises To $50 (Rem. Stack: 1820), BB Calls $40 (Rem. Stack: 1060)

Flop ($120) 8♦ 3♠ 5♥
BB Checks, HERO Bets $60 (Rem. Stack: 1760), BB Calls $60 (Rem. Stack: 1000)

Turn ($240) 8♦ 3♠ 5♥ 6♥
BB Bets $20 (Rem. Stack: 980), HERO Raises To $1760 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), BB Calls $980 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0)

River ($3000) 8♦ 3♠ 5♥ 6♥ 8♠

BB shows A♠ A♦

HERO wins $3000

Finally got one to stick. This is the kind of hand I played yesterday and lost with 90%+ like 5+ times. All on the river. I'm becoming more and more an advocate of playing with a deep bankroll. At least for me, at least for now.