icm question.

Hi, noz03,

solid first post! Good questions asked.

In order to analyze the situation properly though, I would ask you to provide us with some additional info about pay out strucutre/type of SnG in the first hand.

Same applies for hand number 2 + please also type down mp2's, mp3's stack sizes! Looking forward for your answers.

Thanks for the compliments Glad it didnt turn out to be some obvious thing everyone except me knows. Actually it wasnt a real sng but taken from the ICM trainer I got from this site. although I have a lot of questions about how the payout structure effects this, as i usually play winner takes all games with my friends.

Also i was with the understanding that if the players fold before you their stacks dont matter, is this not true? but for the record they both had 2200ish (or 11bb)

Am really curious though why it is ok to go all in with qq on the second but not the first, when I thought have thought the exact opposite!

In a winner-takes-all structure you can call there with QQ, and with slightly weaker hands.

In a 50-30-20 structure, the stacks of the players who have folded matter, both that the players exist and how close they are to busting out.

When you are on the bubble, and to a lesser extent with 3 or 5 players, you may need to be quite risk-averse when overcalling, even when it appears that you are getting good pot odds. This is due to the tight range of the player calling in front of you plus what I call the multiway penalty. When two players are eliminated on the same hand, the larger stack places above the smaller stack. This means that if you overcall as the shortest stack on the bubble, you need to beat both players to make the money. The medium stack can lose and still make the money. Once the shortest stack is all-in, the medium stack is less risk-averse, but once the medium stack is all-in, the short stack is more risk-averse. So, there are common situations in which it is correct to fold KK instead of overcalling on the bubble with a short stack.

Originally posted by noz03
Thanks for the compliments Glad it didnt turn out to be some obvious thing everyone except me knows. Actually it wasnt a real sng but taken from the ICM trainer I got from this site. although I have a lot of questions about how the payout structure effects this, as i usually play winner takes all games with my friends.

Also i was with the understanding that if the players fold before you their stacks dont matter, is this not true? but for the record they both had 2200ish (or 11bb)

Am really curious though why it is ok to go all in with qq on the second but not the first, when I thought have thought the exact opposite!

No worries! More than welcome to post your questions here. It helps all of us improve our knowledge.