[NL2-NL10] AK 2nd

    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Full Tilt Poker
      No Limit Holdem Ring game
      Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
      9 players
      Converter

      Stack sizes:
      UTG: $23.25
      UTG+1: $10
      MP1: $7.45
      Utahmar: $4.65
      MP3: $4.95
      CO: $21.45
      Button: $45
      SB: $25.25
      BB: $24.65

      Pre-flop: (9 players) Utahmar is MP2 with A K
      UTG calls $0.25 (pot was $0.35), 2 folds, Utahmar raises to $1.25, 5 folds, UTG calls $1 (pot was $1.85).

      Flop: 7 7 T ($2.85, 2 players)
      UTG checks, Utahmar checks.

      Turn: Q ($2.85, 2 players)
      UTG bets $4, Utahmar folds.
      Uncalled bets: $4 returned to UTG.

      Results:
      Final pot: $2.85


      Ok i might be wrong here to check behind. But with cbet, as i know if get reraised im pot comitted.
      I think its hard to sell a cbet here, i have very few outs, A :heart: , K :heart: is bad out, backdoor str8 without hearts again.
      Still learning, let me know if im wrong here.
  • 13 replies
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      I like you play here and you already explained yourself why. :)
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Easy push here imo. Because if he doesn`t hold 2 hearts then he is in a very tough spot to call. and I think its likely that he doesn`t. In HU flop looks scarry for both of players...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      They are thinking, but not very deep, if he has any pocket pair, any 2 hearts, or any xT, they reraise in a blink. Even against 2 hearts im behind. AT is a limp hand at my limit from UTG also. But, QT, JT, i can imagine also.

      I dont know what that overbet represents on turn, but im not that curious to find out.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by Utahmar
      They are thinking, but not very deep, if he has any pocket pair, any 2 hearts, or any xT, they reraise in a blink.
      that`s why I push here...

      Even against 2 hearts im behind.

      Who told you that? Even against AKh you are almost getting right pot odds if he calls you...
      you need 2.1:1 and you are getting 1.83:1... add fold equity and you are close to it... against KQh you have 53% of equity...
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Hmm, in my opinion you can`t really make assumptions in the way you do... like if he hold pockets or Tx... if you put him on the range than I guess we have to think in following way:

      he could call with 22-TT (he would probably re-raise with JJ-AA)
      AQs-AJs,KQs,AQo-AJo,KQo (with AK we aslo expect re-raise)

      against this range you are 51% favourite...

      You can disagree with the range and modify it, but we need only 35% of equity to justify our push... + fold equity

      In case he is calling you with two hearts you equity ranges from 43-53% depending on heart cards... so you are getting coinflip and 1.8:1 pot odds + fold equity

      If you say QT, JT are possible hands - check this range

      TT-22,AQs-ATs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AQo-ATo,KTo+,QTo+,JTo

      still, you have 47% of equity
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      I might be totally out of the picture than. What i see here, i have no hand, and effectively no draw, and a hard to sell cbet, fold equity is low.

      But i see your point. Still hard to push a hand with very low chance to win if you are behind.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, I am not saying that you hold a great hand here, neither I like it. What I see in this hand is situation where pot odds allow us to make a move which imo has more EV (EV has nothing to do with particular result of the hand) then check/fold...
      and I think you uderestimate your fold equity, as I wrote in my first post - if he doesn`t hold two hearts, it gets tougher for him to call with pockets...
      I might be wrong somewhere ofcourse...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Probably my concerns came from, that i think of why is he checking.

      1., He has nothing, and not bluffing, and might fold on a cbet. What i see on my limit at FT, they bet in HU no matter what.

      2. He's to check raise my contibet as he know it will come almost for sure ( although it seems im not really doing, its like 90% i do ), as he has something to go with.

      So i understand that EV wise, and you are right all the math, push is ok on hand ranges you set.

      Im not saying he has something like this, but for free i got 1 more card.
      If that is a A, or K, even hearts, i might go allin, because flush is rare, he also might got there, but less likely than a pair.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      I have concerns about your idea of betting the turn, because:

      you are actually making one-way assumption here. look at this in 3rd perspective. If you assume your opponent knows for sure that you will conti bet in 90% of the time, then check/behind here reveals your hand for him. You will protect overpair, you will protect set and you will play your FD agressivly... so only overcards left... At this point you wasted your hand - its ok if you don`t want to play it, I am not saying check is wrong play.

      But now, opponent will use any chance, any scare card to make +ev bluff and we likely will have to fold, since he will fire on turn and now you really have to guess about what he is holding.... And since there are a lot of scare cards in the deck - freecard is not the chance you are willing to take...imo

      What i see on my limit at FT, they bet in HU no matter what.


      Well, I also bet in HU no matter what, so far after playing 45k hands I don`t remeber any spot where I didn`t do it... i guess its working fine for me...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      I like it very much to talk about this situations.

      Do you think that push after a bet before me also ok ?

      Somehow i thought cbet is non seller, i have no hand at all, i probably get called/reraised where im commited, and no real chance to draw to anything good.

      Your math showed that even in this situations push is the right move. I understand that.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      I played with Equilator too.

      On 22-TT, ATs, KQs, KTs, QTs+, JTs, ATo, KQo, KTo, QTo+, JTo i got 38% still more than 35%.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by Utahmar
      I like it very much to talk about this situations.

      Do you think that push after a bet before me also ok ?
      I think I would fold to a bet, because:

      a) no fold equity
      b) at least for my opponents betting into a pre-flop riser without having at least a piece of the flop is more unlikely then likely...

      So I think, if he bets before - then this is a spot where you can minimize your losses playing against his range. i think its quite likely so...
      However, it depends on the flop, on some you are getting good odds even after the bet...



      btw, your range is a bit pissemistic, I think hands like JTo, QTo fall into "not very likely" category. So your equity should be somewhere around 42-45% or smthing
    • Eyeshield77
      Eyeshield77
      Black
      Joined: 07.10.2007 Posts: 2,237
      If opp checked flop, it's easy push on ANY our raising cards.

      If opp will make minibet, it's also easy push (after understanding concepts), because much more often than not he's on bluff or drawing hand. And against bluff and two hearts without pair we are ahead.

      If opp will make bet against which we don't have fold equity, I'd rather fold, because we need to play pot odds agains pair and draw, and they are not good for us.