Video Discussion - Can You Fold Jacks Full in This Spot?

    • DanielUK
      DanielUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2010 Posts: 91
      In the WSOP Main Event 2008, Roberto Romanello folds Jacks full to a 3-bet on the river. One of the greatest folds you've ever seen? Is it correct to ever fold in this spot? Watch the video and let us know what you think.

      Oh, and also take a look below that at how Jennifer Tilly plays her Jacks full. Priceless.



  • 19 replies
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,596
      Pretty insane lay-down but we have no idea how these two play.
      Geller could be a 2/1 rock :)

      And Tilly, well it's not the first time we have seen a brain-fart:
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
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      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by justkyle88
      Pretty insane lay-down but we have no idea how these two play.
      Geller could be a 2/1 rock :)

      And Tilly, well it's not the first time we have seen a brain-fart:
      OMG Kyle. Even the title gives it away. :f_p:

      I just hope you're not confusing JT with Chad Brown. :f_o:
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,596
      whoops. I forgot to edit the filly part because to begin with before I seen the video I though it was her.

      My baddd
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
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      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well imo its a good fold here. I mean what worse hand is he value raising on that river that's in his preflop 3-betting range that you can beat?

      After that action his never value raising hands like AK,AQ,QQ if he played them that way. Basically he can never raise a worse hand for value then Jacks full on this river, so even tho your hand has a high absolute strength its nothing more then a bluff catcher at this point.

      So the only question is how likely is he to bluff that river after c/c on flop and turn, and if you have some reads on the guy that his not bluff happy on scary boards its a pretty easy fold.
    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
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      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      1st one, yeah, noone would 3bet because they would be afraid of straight, unless full house. And JJ was weakest full house.

      2nd one, bet/call at least if you think like that... dunno what pros are thinking...
    • MisClick
      MisClick
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      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      R:"do you show if I fold?"

      G:"NOO!"

      R (ok, what are the almost nuts here? TT? KK? AA? -> right.)

      ............

      G (oh Fck. I shouldn't have said that. ): "Ok, I show"

      R (nice one. Now I will see if I am right for free.): "Ok, I fold"


      I am by no means expert in live play, but I personally think we need more info about stack sizes, stage of the tournament, positions, etc, but basically I think that 'NO!' is the heart talking too fast. Mind drags behind.
      S.

      Oh, and 2nd one is a crappy play.
    • 36bullets
      36bullets
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      Joined: 16.03.2010 Posts: 57
      What I want to ask first is how those hands were played pre-flop. I think that is crucial in reading the hand. IMO if KK raised PF while encountering a limp from 99 and a raise from JJ, it would be an easier read all throughout the hand for JJ.

      This is just what I thought, I'm no expert. :)
    • Hagbard00
      Hagbard00
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      Joined: 30.11.2008 Posts: 22
      There was no 3-bet PF. Guy with kings raised and got called by JJ and 99. Matusow would never ever play 3bet pot with 99.

      So folding jacks full in this spot is very funny. He could easily have JT, KT, AT. I mean, even a nit like Matusow would never fold that lol.
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
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      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Do you think Tilly would have folded her jacks full if Patrik pushed on the river? :D
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
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      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      OMG, the guy check behind on the River with the best nuts. What he is thinking? Check behind with four of a kind with ace kicker, that is idiot move.
    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
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      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      Both badly played. Tillys check back would had been bad too if Antonius had KK. The JJ hand is pretty bad fold due to the fact that the only thing that beats him is AA / KK / TT. AA / KK bets very often on the flop so it's quite unlikely. Even if you say he has all combos of KK / AA he still has more than enough combos of KT / AT. His body language sure is strong but he should also feel strong holding AT / KT
    • StoneJ
      StoneJ
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      Joined: 03.08.2010 Posts: 153
      that 6666 hand is played so bad by both of them lol, never seen that vid before
    • StoneJ
      StoneJ
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      Joined: 03.08.2010 Posts: 153
      Originally posted by MathhNes
      Both badly played. Tillys check back would had been bad too if Antonius had KK. The JJ hand is pretty bad fold due to the fact that the only thing that beats him is AA / KK / TT. AA / KK bets very often on the flop so it's quite unlikely. Even if you say he has all combos of KK / AA he still has more than enough combos of KT / AT. His body language sure is strong but he should also feel strong holding AT / KT
      I think romanello would have ruled out AT and KT as possibilities in his head due to the preflop action
    • lolsplitpot
      lolsplitpot
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      Joined: 29.07.2010 Posts: 44
      Never! Nice prediction btw.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
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      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by StoneJ
      Originally posted by MathhNes
      Both badly played. Tillys check back would had been bad too if Antonius had KK. The JJ hand is pretty bad fold due to the fact that the only thing that beats him is AA / KK / TT. AA / KK bets very often on the flop so it's quite unlikely. Even if you say he has all combos of KK / AA he still has more than enough combos of KT / AT. His body language sure is strong but he should also feel strong holding AT / KT
      I think romanello would have ruled out AT and KT as possibilities in his head due to the preflop action
      Yeah its kinda unlikely that AT/KT are in his UTG raising range since your always dominated once you get called so you can pretty much rule those out of his range.

      It would definetly be nice to see the whole hand at least to see preflop action and positions. Im assuming Geller raised from UTG and Romanello and Mike called out of the blinds. So nobody can have AT/KT here since it makes no sense to raise those hands from UTG or call OOP since your always going to be dominated.

      So from Gellar UTG range the hands that connected with this board are TT+ and AQ+. Now if he has a AQ/QQ then his betting the turn almost alwasys and even if he doesn't he is just calling on the river not turning it into a bluff. If he has AK on that board he can't value raise the river. He can fold it or call it if he thinks Romanello just took a stab at the pot after flop and turn action.

      So on this board the only hands in his range that he can raise for value are TT, KK and AA. So he either has that or he is bluffing. That leave's you with the question of how likely he is to bluff this river after showing no interest in the pot on flop and turn. And if he had some live reads on him its a pretty easy fold.
    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
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      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      maybe she tried to break Phil Ivey's immortal poker face, if yes, then she successed.
    • stevegold87
      stevegold87
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      Joined: 18.06.2009 Posts: 2,640
      Originally posted by Saruniks
      maybe she tried to break Phil Ivey's immortal poker face, if yes, then she successed.
      imo Phil Ivey face after she shows is fucking hilarious. He just wants to LOL so bad.
    • Justin37
      Justin37
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      Joined: 25.07.2009 Posts: 445
      Well i did read somewhere about this hand n the JJ quy said something like this : He raised so high Preflop so i was thinking he got AA/KK

      For me i surely call or fold only.
    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
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      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      Originally posted by MatejM47
      Originally posted by StoneJ
      Originally posted by MathhNes
      Both badly played. Tillys check back would had been bad too if Antonius had KK. The JJ hand is pretty bad fold due to the fact that the only thing that beats him is AA / KK / TT. AA / KK bets very often on the flop so it's quite unlikely. Even if you say he has all combos of KK / AA he still has more than enough combos of KT / AT. His body language sure is strong but he should also feel strong holding AT / KT
      I think romanello would have ruled out AT and KT as possibilities in his head due to the preflop action
      Yeah its kinda unlikely that AT/KT are in his UTG raising range since your always dominated once you get called so you can pretty much rule those out of his range.

      It would definetly be nice to see the whole hand at least to see preflop action and positions. Im assuming Geller raised from UTG and Romanello and Mike called out of the blinds. So nobody can have AT/KT here since it makes no sense to raise those hands from UTG or call OOP since your always going to be dominated.

      So from Gellar UTG range the hands that connected with this board are TT+ and AQ+. Now if he has a AQ/QQ then his betting the turn almost alwasys and even if he doesn't he is just calling on the river not turning it into a bluff. If he has AK on that board he can't value raise the river. He can fold it or call it if he thinks Romanello just took a stab at the pot after flop and turn action.

      So on this board the only hands in his range that he can raise for value are TT, KK and AA. So he either has that or he is bluffing. That leave's you with the question of how likely he is to bluff this river after showing no interest in the pot on flop and turn. And if he had some live reads on him its a pretty easy fold.
      You are the man, i am the fish! Didnt think about ruling out KT / AT but yes your reasoning makes perfect sense. I can see the logic for folding now definately. Thanks for learning me how to fold second nuts to two bets :s_biggrin: