FL basic strategy, articles

    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Hello. I've preliminary studied FL Basic strategy.
      But have some questions.

      Will you be so kind to clarify me the moments I don't understand or the're missed in the description of basic strategy.

      1. Pre-flop round.
      Should I sit on the table only with 9-10 players for clear understanding whose position is
      exactly blind, early, middle or late? Or I also can sit on the table with less than 9-10 players (5-6 o less)? Then how can I determine which position is for each player?

      2. Pre-flop round.
      How can I define my action on pre-flop round if I sit on the 1st early position after big blind? Chart says I need to know what players previously did before me.
      Perhaps I shound count blind and big blind bets as betting or rasing. If so - tell me this precisely.

      3. Flop round
      According to strategy on flop I should bet or raise only once if I have top pair, over pair, flush draw, two-way straight draw, bilateral gutshot and over cards+gutshot.
      If somebody raise after me I should call.

      So If somebody raise after me more than once (2 or 3 times) then should I call also?

      4. Flop round
      According to strategy on flop I should bet or raise with over cards or gutshot if I bet or raise in a pre-flop round.

      So this betting or raising in a pre-flop round means my last action in a preflop round? Is this the same situation that's called "initiative" in a turn or river round?

      5. Turn round
      According to strategy I shoud check and then call if I have different combinations less than mosters when I have or don't have initiative but nobody bet before me.

      So the strategy says I shoud call if somebody bet after me.
      But what if then somebody raise after betting 1 or more times?
      Should I also call then?

      6. Small mistake
      In the flop round strategy in the example with gutshot+overcards with KQs on pre-flop chart says we should FOLD in an early position but not raise.

      Waiting for your soon reply
  • 20 replies
    • cataah
      cataah
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,060
      1. I recomend you to sit only with 8-10 players. The postflop strategy desribed is good only for 8-10 players. With 5-6 players you need to be more agressive and that means you play different from what is described here.

      about the positions:
      with 10 players we have:
      SB BB EP EP+1 EP+2 MP MP+1 MP+2 CO BU

      with 9 players we have:
      SB BB EP+1 EP+2 MP MP+1 MP+2 CO BU

      with 8 players we have:
      SB BB EP+2 MP MP+1 MP+2 CO BU

      with 7 players we have:
      SB BB MP MP+1 MP+2 CO BU

      with 6 players we have:
      SB BB MP+1 MP+2 CO BU

      etc
      hope you get the ideea.

      2. If you are first player after the BB => nothing hapened before you. You are the first to act.

      3. Call, yes. Sometimes a raise is good.
      if you get raised more than once... your opponent type plays an important role in your strategy... in generaly you should calldown to the river.

      4. Yes, it-s the same situation calledinitiative ;)

      5. It depends on the pot here.
      you will have to call 2BB's (one from the first bettor, second from the raiser). You should do a quick calculation.
      Remember this odds: 1:5 is for OSED; 1:4 is for FlushDraw
      now, when you think if you should call or not, you look at the pot.
      POT= what is in the middle + the bets from your opponents

      If the pot is 10BB or bigger (1:5 = 2:10) then you shold call with OSED
      It's like you have to put 2BB in a 10BB pot

      If the pot is 8BB or bigger (1:4 = 2:8) then you shold call with FD
      It's like you have to put 2BB in a 8BB pot

      the bigger the pot, the better.

      6. ...
      you better copy-paste the example. I don't know where is that.

      Good luck
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Thanks for your reply brother.

      1. Is the strategy for 5-6 or less players described on above levels? Bronze, silver, gold?

      2. I mean chart does't say how to act this time if nobody act before me (bet, raise, call or fold). So what should I do this time. Check and wait for the changing of the situation to use the chart?

      3. Call. I see your point.

      4. ok

      5. Very interesting rule. Will I know this rule on the levels above - bronze, silver, gold?

      This is only for OSED and for FlushDraw. And raising 1 time.
      What about other hands and raising more than 1 time?

      6. Here's the text from this example. I could't paste the picture of KQs.
      The link is here - http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/fixed-limit/235/1/
      According to basic chart - here's a mistake because we should FOLD before the flop but not raise. So see below. Waiting for your replies.

      GUTSHOT + OVERCARDS

      These two weak draws combined make a strong draw. You should play this like a Flushdraw or an OESD. You bet or raise once. If there's a raise after you, call.
      Before the flop - 10 players You're in middle position with KQs.

      A player calls.
      You raise.
      3 players call your raise.

      On the flop - active players: 4

      A player bets.
      Another player calls it.
      It's your turn now...

      As mentioned earlier, you should do the following with a flush draw or an OESD: You raise once. If someone re-raises after you, you simply call it in the hope that you will hit a top-pair or a straight later on.
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      6. Everything is OK. It's my mistake.
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Cataah, can you clarify my questions?

      Waiting for your soon reply.
    • cataah
      cataah
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,060
      1. In the silver section there is a chart for playing SH(shorhanded - 6max)
      The bronze and silver sections are mainly for FR(fullring - 9-10players). But the concepts can be apply to SH with a little adaptation
      The gold section and above are for both FR and SH. The concepts from there apply to both strategyes.

      2. I looked at the chart. If you are first to act, you play as everybody folded to you.

      5. Yes, you will find that in the bronze section. And on a more advanced level in the silver section.

      When you have a drawing hand and don't know if you should call or not, you must do theese calculations:
      a) cound your outs. Outs are the cards that help you.
      For OSED you have 8 outs(8 cards that give you the straight)
      For FD you have 9 outs (9 cards that give you the flush)
      For Gutshot you have 4 outs (4 cards that give you the straight)
      For example if you have K:hQ and the flop is 3:c7:d9 you can say that you have 6 outs (K K K Q Q Q could help you improve to the best hand)

      b) Depending on how many outs you have, you calculate your odds to call.
      You have a chart in the bronze section for this
      Odds to call with 8outs(OSED) are 1:5
      Odds to call with 9outs(FD) are 1:4
      Odds to call with 4outs (gutshot) are 1:11

      c) You calculate the pot odds.
      That is:
      you look at how much you have to pay. Depending on the action before you, you will have to call 1bet, 2bets, 3bets, or 4bets. (on the flop these are SmallBets, on the turn, they are BigBets)
      You can calculate using $ - how much $ you have to call or using Smallbets/BigBets.

      - lets say you have to call x$ (or xbets, whatever you want)
      - now you look at the pot. the pot has P$ in it (or Pbets)
      - You say you have to call x$ in a P$ pot. That means x$: P$ - those are your pot odds. you simplify them to look like your odds to call (1:5 or 1:4 ...or anything like that). so x: P is like 1: P/x

      EXAMPLE: Lets say you have FD. You need 1:4 odds to call.
      You quicly calculate your pot odds 1: P/x. If you get at least 1:4(If pot odds are at least 1:4), then you shold call.
      The bigger the pot, the better.
      If you get for example 1:7(pot odds), you shold call with a smile on your face(because you only need 1:4). If you get 1:3(pot odds) you should fold your FD(because you need 1:4)

      So remember:
      a) outs - are those cards that help you win the hand
      b) odds to call - you cand find these in a chart in the bronze section
      c) pot odds - you compare these with your odds to call and decide your move.

      In the Silver section you will learn about implied odds/ reverse implied odds and how to discount outs. and about equity too :)

      You have a lot to learn. Deposit some money(or get your starting capital) and have fun with bronze and silver articles.

      goodluck
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Thanks for your help, Cataah
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Cataah, I have some more questions about basic strategy.

      Please answer them.

      1. How many circles can each round (before the flop, on the flop, tern or river) last?
      Can some player for example constantly raise before the flop and make this round very long until all other players fold?

      2. On the flop round there's a situation when you have overcards or gutshot.
      So strategy says us to BET if you raise before the flop and now there's 2 or less opponents against you.
      Does it also mean RAISE one or more times if the opponets CALL to my previous BET?

      So does the semi-bluffing goes to end of the round or I should stop after the first BET?

      2. On the turn round when you have more than 1 BB AFTER you we call also with the strong draw hands. But when you have more than 1 BB BEFORE you we call only with monster hands, but not strong draws.
      Why not? As for me the situations are similar one another.

      3. On the river round when you have initiative there's no description how to act when you have 2 or more RAISES from the opponents after your BET.
      The same with BET or RAISE 2 ore more times before your turn in such a situation.

      What to do in this situations? Fold or call?

      Waiting for your soon reply


      If other poker professionals can answer these questions - welcome.
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Originally posted by cataah

      2. I looked at the chart. If you are first to act, you play as everybody folded to you.

      goodluck
      Where have you seen it? I don't see this answer in my chart. Perhaps you use another one? If no, than explain your logic to me
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by sheeva108
      Cataah, I have some more questions about basic strategy.

      Please answer them.

      1. How many circles can each round (before the flop, on the flop, tern or river) last?
      Can some player for example constantly raise before the flop and make this round very long until all other players fold?

      2. On the flop round there's a situation when you have overcards or gutshot.
      So strategy says us to BET if you raise before the flop and now there's 2 or less opponents against you.
      Does it also mean RAISE one or more times if the opponets CALL to my previous BET?

      So does the semi-bluffing goes to end of the round or I should stop after the first BET?

      2. On the turn round when you have more than 1 BB AFTER you we call also with the strong draw hands. But when you have more than 1 BB BEFORE you we call only with monster hands, but not strong draws.
      Why not? As for me the situations are similar one another.

      3. On the river round when you have initiative there's no description how to act when you have 2 or more RAISES from the opponents after your BET.
      The same with BET or RAISE 2 ore more times before your turn in such a situation.

      What to do in this situations? Fold or call?

      Waiting for your soon reply


      If other poker professionals can answer these questions - welcome.
      1. most rooms have a four bet maximum - a four bet is referred to as capping (CAP). Check your poker room details to confirm. Ongame and (I think) Everest have no maximum raise limit. In a four bet per street maximum poker room, you should make sure you have 12BB before the start of any hand so as not to lose value when holding monster hands. If you have AA and are on a no CAP site, then bet until all in, otherwise I'd go to just the four bets with CAPping hands.

      2. You only hold a weak hand, a 3 bet with a weak hand will be read dependant. As a beginner, just call if raised when finishing the action. Post hands you've played in the evaluation section where you're unsure.

      2 (again). You are confusing syntax. 1BB = 1 big bet. You should refer to it as a bet and a raise where there is a bet and a raise for clarity.

      Why not? Because of odds and outs/equity I'd guess, and the fact you won't be completing the action if you're sandwiched between players. Again, if you are unsure of specific situations, post hands in the evaluation section.

      3. Depends on your hand. Raise with the nuts, with non nut hands you will need to rely on reads on the other players and an idea on your equity. Again, these are situation dependant and you need to post examples in the evaluation section to get a better idea.

      Trust this helps.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by sheeva108
      Originally posted by cataah

      2. I looked at the chart. If you are first to act, you play as everybody folded to you.

      goodluck
      Where have you seen it? I don't see this answer in my chart. Perhaps you use another one? If no, than explain your logic to me
      The chart talks about what other players have done before you. The phrasing is "All Players Fold". This means, in EP, if the players before you (ie not the blinds, but other players in EP before you) fold, then play as the chart directs.
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Originally posted by sheeva108
      Originally posted by cataah

      2. I looked at the chart. If you are first to act, you play as everybody folded to you.

      goodluck
      Where have you seen it? I don't see this answer in my chart. Perhaps you use another one? If no, than explain your logic to me
      The chart talks about what other players have done before you. The phrasing is "All Players Fold". This means, in EP, if the players before you (ie not the blinds, but other players in EP before you) fold, then play as the chart directs.
      Thaks for your replies Waiboy.
      But what should I do if I'm in the 1-st to act after BB and SM (no other players fold before me and only SM and BB bet)??? Chart doesn't say what to do in that situation.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by sheeva108
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      The chart talks about what other players have done before you. The phrasing is "All Players Fold". This means, in EP, if the players before you (ie not the blinds, but other players in EP before you) fold, then play as the chart directs.
      But what should I do if I'm in the 1-st to act after BB and SM (no other players fold before me and only SM and BB bet)??? Chart doesn't say what to do in that situation.
      Yes it does! You're just being a little too literal. Pretend that it says "All Players Fold or If You Are First To Act After the Blinds (ie Under the Gun)". And by SM I guess you mean Small Blind (which is referred to as SB).
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Thanks for advices
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      More questions...

      When we compare BET and POT should we add this bet in the existing pot?

      Example: the pot is 10 BB, we need to bet 2 BB to continue the game.

      Should we add the needed bet (2 BB) to the existing pot (10 BB) or not to find the needed ratio???

      The question rises because the ratio is different:
      in the fisrt case it's 1/5
      in the second case it's 1/6

      Answer this question, PROFESSIONALS OF POKER
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      The situation is: SB and BB bet blinds, then one player BET.
      I'm the next to act. Should I see the linr in the chart - "one players RAISES, all other opponets fold"???
      Is this choice correct based on the previous situation with action straight after SB and BB???
    • sheeva108
      sheeva108
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.09.2010 Posts: 59
      Professionals, are these combinations gutshots or OESD:

      A,K,Q,J,......
      A,2,3,4,......

      I think these are gutshots. But gutshots are described in the basic articles with only missed cards between the first and the last in combinations.

      Am I right or not???
    • redmeat
      redmeat
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 32
      Hi sheeva108!

      Those combinations are indeed gutshots. You only have 4 outs to complete your straights (four T in the first case and four 5 in the last one).
      An open ended straight draw is something like 5678 where any 4 and any 9 completes the straight.

      I hope i was able to clarify your doubts.

      regards
    • cataah
      cataah
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,060
      Originally posted by sheeva108
      More questions...

      When we compare BET and POT should we add this bet in the existing pot?

      Example: the pot is 10 BB, we need to bet 2 BB to continue the game.

      Should we add the needed bet (2 BB) to the existing pot (10 BB) or not to find the needed ratio???

      The question rises because the ratio is different:
      in the fisrt case it's 1/5
      in the second case it's 1/6

      Answer this question, PROFESSIONALS OF POKER
      No, you don't add what you have to put in.
      if the pot is 10BB and you have to call 2BB then the ratio is 2:10 which means you have 1:5
    • cataah
      cataah
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2009 Posts: 3,060
      Originally posted by sheeva108
      The situation is: SB and BB bet blinds, then one player BET.
      I'm the next to act. Should I see the linr in the chart - "one players RAISES, all other opponets fold"???
      Is this choice correct based on the previous situation with action straight after SB and BB???
      yes, you have it right
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