[NL2-NL10] NL10 - TPTK faces re-raise on flop.

    • Salivanth
      Salivanth
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2011 Posts: 587
      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      SB = ($13.73)
      BB = ($10.35) (19/8 over 88 hands)
      UTG2 = ($8.78)
      MP1 (Hero) = ($12.50)
      MP2 = ($11.05)
      MP3 = ($3.35)
      CO = ($10.60)
      BU = ($16.51)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q :heart: , A :heart: .
      UTG2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 5 folds, BB calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($0.85) 7 :diamond: , Q :spade: , 4 :spade: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.53, BB raises to $1.30, Hero folds, BB gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $1.38.

      This is less about one hand, and more a larger issue. I find this happening fairly frequently: I have top pair, I throw out a value bet on the flop, and get re-raised. What should my play be here? And since this is Poker, I think the answer is "It depends", so what factors should influence the decision?
  • 4 replies
    • Duudalinja
      Duudalinja
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      Howdy,

      Against this guy we could bet/fold, but as you said - it depends VPIP and PFR is rly not enough. His raise size is not too big and he's repping really narrow value range, so calling is totally doable option as he can have worse Qx/draws, but we have to have a plan on later streets then.

      It's hard always to say best line and often it's close as sometimes all decisions are so close EV wise. If you want, write down - what would you do against these type of players (stats are VPIP/PFR/AFq) if you get raised in this spot:
      1) 9/8/35
      2) 67/40/70
      3) 22/19/40

      Reopen the thread when you post an answer, please.

      Good luck!
    • Salivanth
      Salivanth
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2011 Posts: 587
      1) Well, as a nit, I'd see him set-mining, and not much else. Given that he called, not raised, I'd probably give him a range of 22 - TT, and AQ. As he's a nit, I imagine he 3-bets only JJ+, AK.

      Then his aggression is 35, which is 2.8%. This fits with betting top pair+, and folding pocket pairs if he didn't hit his set. As he's re-raising, I put him on QQ+ here, and I fold.

      2) Presumably these are the stats of a fish. I have no idea how he'd call, but we'll presume that someone that reckless has basically no positional awareness. He's probably calling with a very wide range.

      I could try and work out his whole range, but suffice it to say that 10% - 30% is approximate. He'd probably 3-bet the top 10%. He has a huge aggression rating, so we can assume he'd re-raise QJ/QT. He could also have 44/77, and he could be re-raising as a bluff with a bunch of worse hands. Call, and be okay to stack off.

      3) This looks like a TAGgy range, which is what I play, so I can put him on a similar range to my own. I call with 22-99 for set mining, and might also call with AJ and AQ. Other hands I would likely 3-bet or fold. If I were to re-raise here, I would probably have a set, so I would fold here.
    • Duudalinja
      Duudalinja
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      Originally posted by Salivanth
      1) Well, as a nit, I'd see him set-mining, and not much else. Given that he called, not raised, I'd probably give him a range of 22 - TT, and AQ. As he's a nit, I imagine he 3-bets only JJ+, AK.

      Then his aggression is 35, which is 2.8%. This fits with betting top pair+, and folding pocket pairs if he didn't hit his set. As he's re-raising, I put him on QQ+ here, and I fold.
      Yeap, when he raises he has two pair+ pretty much always just because he has very few marginal hands in his range and he tends to play his good, but no great hands and draws passively. He won't raise KQ etc., so it's pretty easy bet/fold.

      Originally posted by Salivanth
      2) Presumably these are the stats of a fish. I have no idea how he'd call, but we'll presume that someone that reckless has basically no positional awareness. He's probably calling with a very wide range.

      I could try and work out his whole range, but suffice it to say that 10% - 30% is approximate. He'd probably 3-bet the top 10%. He has a huge aggression rating, so we can assume he'd re-raise QJ/QT. He could also have 44/77, and he could be re-raising as a bluff with a bunch of worse hands. Call, and be okay to stack off.
      You described him as they are - they don't care, they just play their pokaaaah, so we can deffo play further because he can raise draws/TPGK/bluffs etc. and his range is much wider that our previous nit. Yes, he will show up w/ 44/77 time after time, but that doesn't matter as he will show up w/ some kind of crap even more.

      Originally posted by Salivanth
      3) This looks like a TAGgy range, which is what I play, so I can put him on a similar range to my own. I call with 22-99 for set mining, and might also call with AJ and AQ. Other hands I would likely 3-bet or fold. If I were to re-raise here, I would probably have a set, so I would fold here.
      You described actions to more nitty TAG. Not wrong, but there's other side of it. These stats usually show pretty balanced range - that means he can not only raise with his monster hands, but also make some semibluffs or even pure bluffs on good boards. He can call with 22-99 for set mining, but that doesn't mean he will just ch/f every single flop without hitting a set. He can have some suited connectors (more when he's in position and multi-way) and stuff he can semi-bluff with. So that means if he noticed we are folding a lot, he can use that in his advantage. If he thinks our range didn't hit - he can raise as bluff or semi-bluff. He can raise with monsters aswell obviously - and we can't always 100% know what he has. To make decisions we have to keep in mind his stats, notes, positions, image (good TAG's are one of the rare players that are influenced by image, but don't overrate it) etc.

      What I wanted to say - there are players we know how to play against, but there's always some part of close decisions we have to make.

      In this particular hand - bet/fold is reasonable as we were raising from MP1 and it's not like BTNvsBB and he's playing more on tight side, so he probably has more value hands than bluffs. Nonetheless - every read is priceless here - reads are things that can make our decision much easier and make us much more money.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Salivanth,

      By the way, I'd even CBet it bigger like $0,65+. And rather yes, just fold unless he is really aggressive opponent from who we might even expect to see raises with draws or weaker Qx.

      And I'd take into account his AF here, depends on that. And as well for example what's his raise CBet and how often has he done that?

      Best regards.