Hud? Absolutely necessary?

    • ikkvr
      ikkvr
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2012 Posts: 995
      Hello Guys Just a curious question how many of you play without a Hud and make money? Yes there are free huds but My pc is done and dusted so cant run much apps like that

      Applies to any format Sng,mtt cash Ive played a bit of everything in nl formats and how do u study without a hud ?
  • 20 replies
    • gadget51
      gadget51
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      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi there ikkvr,

      Firstly I've moved this to Learning to Win for you, seems more appropriate there. :)

      Secondly, I don't use a hud very much, it depends on my mood but if it's a new limit I'm at there isn't much point, or if dropped down a limit for whatever reason, I'm not bothered there either as I don't expect to be there long enough for it to matter.

      Study the villains and take notes, lots and lots of notes. Every time you get to see a showdown I bet there is something noteworthy like bet sizing etc., even if the hand didn't involve yourself, take the note anyway.
      This may mean cutting down on table numbers for a while until you get used to it all, but better to have quality rather than quantity is my thinking.

      I hope that gives you some ideas, but I expect others can add more than me.

      Have fun and see you at the tables! =)

      Mal.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      play gto, no hud required

      now seriously, i'm pretty sure you can profit on micros with a solid standard abc game as the average reg is quite worse than abc.
      the main purpose about having a hud is to make good adjustments to opponents
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,913
      Hi, ikkvr...
      As well as the points already mentioned, their is the pitfall of relying too much on the HUD, especially for stats that require large sample sizes.

      For example, if your HUD says player 'VorpalF2F' folds 75% to 3Bets pre-draw, but has only *seen* 8 3Bets, it could be that he
      a) just had crappy cards,
      b) was in a tight mood, or
      c) Mrs Vorpal distracted him for a minute or
      d) etc

      The problem with playing VorpalF2F with a sample of 10,000 hands is that he is a far different player now that he was 10,000 hands ago.

      Note: I DO use a HUD, but don't rely on it -- tracking software is more useful for reviewing your play, and for keeping track of results.

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      As Tomaloc says, when playing (or attempting to play) GTO (= Game Theory Optimal) you don't need a HUD because you (by definition) wouldn't use it.

      But there are other situations as well, that are opposite of GTO play. In a heads-up situation with plenty of meta-game going on, a HUD might mostly distract you.

      As VorpalF2F says, if you have a HUD, use it - but responsibly.

      I'd say, if you don't have a HUD, avoid multi-tabling heavily. I'd also say, even if you do have a HUD, play a few sessions without it on occasion. Keeps you sharp, besides, the value of HUD stats are i m o generally overrated.
    • acerbikas
      acerbikas
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2011 Posts: 229
      I think MTTs are easiest to manage without a HUD, whereas zoom cash games seem nigh impossible to sustain a high winrate at without one, even if it is to analyze your own game.

      Personally, I'd say avoid getting overly used it -- I've been trying to multi-site low stakes mtts across stars and party and I can tell boy do they play differently, even though personal stats are similar. Party has this distasteful habit of making your hud obsolete on some tables, making them disappear or not appear in the first place, so overreliance on it is ill-advised.
    • ikkvr
      ikkvr
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      Joined: 19.12.2012 Posts: 995
      Thanks guys for nice responses playing zoom for a while without it doing fine on nl5 but I generally spew around mtts than start again from nl2 Main point is cant study my own game much and see if I am running bad or just playing bad and finding an excuse
    • jassurin
      jassurin
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2014 Posts: 24
      "Secondly, I don't use a hud very much, it depends on my mood but if it's a new limit I'm at there isn't much point, or if dropped down a limit for whatever reason, I'm not bothered there either as I don't expect to be there long enough for it to matter.

      Study the villains and take notes, lots and lots of notes"

      curious to know how you will take those notes then? Pen and paper? Note caddy would take care of this pretty smoothly though..

      cheers
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by jassurin
      "Secondly, I don't use a hud very much, it depends on my mood but if it's a new limit I'm at there isn't much point, or if dropped down a limit for whatever reason, I'm not bothered there either as I don't expect to be there long enough for it to matter.

      Study the villains and take notes, lots and lots of notes"

      curious to know how you will take those notes then? Pen and paper? Note caddy would take care of this pretty smoothly though..

      cheers
      right click on vilain's avatar and edit notes maybe?
    • jassurin
      jassurin
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      Joined: 04.04.2014 Posts: 24
      You are right,my bad ...lol
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      You can play without a HUD 1kNL+ as the fields are so small you won't encounter too many new players. For stakes below HUD is mandatory imo.
    • ikkvr
      ikkvr
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2012 Posts: 995
      Hmm whats my stats on ur hud riharda? U must have seeen me on nl5 :D I dont know my stats too
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Originally posted by ikkvr
      Hmm whats my stats on ur hud riharda? U must have seeen me on nl5 :D I dont know my stats too
      Nit over 55 hands.
    • jules97
      jules97
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.06.2012 Posts: 1,449
      I have 50k hands hudless playing micros on my phone this year, trying to play GTO at 5bb/100. Would probably be double that if playing for the stakes, i.e folding to aggression and not bluffing as much.

      I think a hud is detrimental to learning to play good poker.
    • noobis667
      noobis667
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.02.2012 Posts: 275
      One of the bigger crusher at nl500 zoom play without hud,if you play 4 tables and take some note plus you know what you doing ther that prob even better that have hud and over focus on it.
    • ikkvr
      ikkvr
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      Joined: 19.12.2012 Posts: 995
      I dont know much about GTO any related articles here?
    • gadget51
      gadget51
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      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi Vivek,

      I looked for articles on that for you but unfortunately they all seem to be for Gold+ status.

      I've seen you around at the tables, so good luck there. :)

      Regards and have fun,

      Mal.
    • rompas
      rompas
      Moderator
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      Joined: 12.02.2014 Posts: 2,390
      how do you use HUD in livegames? :rolleyes:
    • SirPaulius
      SirPaulius
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      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 580
      easy, just need a pen, paper and calculator
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,913
      Originally posted by SirPaulius
      easy, just need a pen, paper and calculator
      Well that is the database part, but I haven't figured out how to get the stats to float in the air over their heads... :coolface:

      Do people do this in casinos?
      (take notes, I mean -- not float things over their heads)


      --VS
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