Should I 3-barrel bluff a fish?

Nice analysis, but it doesn't answer the general question:
Should I 3-barrel bluff a fish?
Under the usual definition of a fish, the answer is yes. The reason being that they come into the river with a much weaker range than a tight player and accordingly have to fold out of proportion (unless they hate money) on the river. Two-barreling fish is, for the same reason, in general awful. Of course, details depend on the board and the fish, but in generality, YES, fish should be 3-barreled.

Fish will always look for the slightest reason to call you down. That is why it is a fish. It is possible to call you with amazing ang colourful hands...

If this is the type of fish that won't fold, you need a showdown hand.
If this is the type of fish that folds easily, by all means show strength all the way.

This an example of a fish that does not fold easily:

and one that will:

Sorry, I couldn't resist that...:coolface:
VS

Why would I 3-barrel a fish that folds easily? Makes no sense to me.

terrible spot. he has a reasonable number of straights, and from the hands that aren't straights, fish pretty much never consider folding 2p+ in this spot and i wouldn't be very optimistic about making Jx fold either

Originally posted by gadget51
Why would I 3-barrel a fish that folds easily? Makes no sense to me.

If your fish hates to fold flop, hates to fold turn, but doesn't hate his money enough to call river with bottom pair, the 3-barreling makes plenty of sense. You win much more when he eventually folds than from a reg that makes a marginal fold on the flop. Barreling one or twice versus this kind of fish makes, on the other hand, no sense since there is no fold equity whatsoever.

But I reiterate that the example ITT is not a 3-barrel. I am checking back already on the flop, regardless of fish type here.

I agree with that, it's a nasty board to try anything, just chk/f for me.

I would ask another question connected with this subject: Should we 3barrel bluff with pure air or should we instead look for spots to semi-bluff (FD,GS,OESD, or overcards at least) ?

Hi, wg123,
When bluffing it always helps to have some backdoor draws or overcards, or even some weak showdown value like second pair.

Before bluffing you need to know what your goal is.
There are two possible reasons to bluff:
 1: Get better hands to fold and steal the pot.
 2: Look like an idiot so people will pay you off on future hands.

If your goal is #1, then you need to pick an opponent who will fold better hands than what you hold. If they won't fold, you cannot possibly bluff them.

Which leaves #2. If they won't fold, and you bluff, then when they call people see that you bluffed, and may pay you off later. But we're talking about 3 barrels. If you bluff on flop and turn, and they won't fold the river, just show it down. It accomplishes the same thing, and you lose less. (assuming you lose).

A lot of times people think that they're being so clever bluffing an opponent off the pot, when the opponent had squat anyway.

Peace,
VS

Thanks for your answer Vorpal.

It's interesting what you wrote in point 2. That might be true in some circumstances but I don't think it will give you much value especially on microstakes. If you play against some regular player, he has some sample on you which tells him more about your play than one showdown.

Point 1 is more interesting because that was my question which still hasn't been answered actually. Part of the value from semi-bluff comes from folds of our villains and another part comes from the fact when we hit our outs. It gives us usually a good reason to 3barelling. On the other hand if we bet flop and turn and we know on both streets that the only way we can win the pot is making our villain fold his hand it's much more risky and much less profitable.

When bluffing it always helps to have some backdoor draws or overcards

Yes, that's right. But should we completely avoid making pure air bluffs or just limit them or maybe they should be done as often as semi-bluffs?

* I wouldn't agree with you that "second pair" is a good hand to barrel. We don't have big folding equity on better hands and we should in my opinion try to control the pot and get to showdown as cheaply as possible.

I think having cards, which are connected with he board (while still no made hand), are better for bluffing not only cause of higher equity,but also cause of blockers ? Like two spades on the board (turn) and one spade in our hand ? So we block many suited combos for our opponents ?

Yep, u should

i love how nowadays: K3ss on j98sxx is backdoor flushdraw and backdoor straigthdraw... it used to be called "i missed the flop"

i think we can opt to not cbet this hand, as it hits his range quite well but i prefer 3 barreling as its a highly dynamic board and we have position

when we 3 barrel -> we want opponents range to be as weak as possible on the river, for that reason i'd go smaller on the flop, turn size is fine, river is super bad card -> many 2 pairs and straights and they wont fold SO we bet small to get Q9, Q8, A9 and 8x with spades to fold! (improving our winrate by risking less)

A 5-year-old thread rises from the dead.
I wonder how that happened?