TP OTR

Any particular reason for c-betting this flop?

So the river bet: Ofc its a fold. On a general basis you will sometimes get called & win over a7,A8,aJ
You will get called or raised (and loose) by: AK, AT, A9, A2, A4, KQc, KJc, QJc, TJc, T9, 98c, 87c and some slowplay sets.

As I see it the odds is in your disfavour. I think check/fold, maybe a marginal check/call could be OK aswell depending on history.

I'm not sure if I like that flop cbet. I would probably just check there.

If you bet the river, I think villain is not calling with anything weaker than Ax, right? What Ax hands would he call a 3bet with, then call the flop but not stab OTT when you check?
I would check the river and then maybe call if he bets. I don't see weaker hands that could call your river bet.

I would x flop too.
As played, river is a fold, as we do not beat anything.

Why check flop? We have backdoor straight draw, backdoor nut flush draw and 2 overs. Can a better hand fold? Maybe 66, 77, AK of hearts and spades and offsuite combos? Can a worse hand call? Def. all flush draws.
What do I miss here? For me it's clear Cbet on flop. Turn check is standard as well. On river, I would rather bluffcatch with this hand, but bet/fold should be fine I think.

Why check flop?

We are out of position so we should be more careful when cbetting. We are often lost on later streets and it is easy for villain to outplay us when he is IP. If he is even somewhat decent player he will defend a nice part of his range. We probably don't get that many folds vs his 3bet calling range and our hand is weak-ish. We have nice backdoors and overs and that is why I would rather check call and decide OTT, or sometimes check raise.
If hero would be IP I would agree with a cbet.

Can a better hand fold? Maybe 66, 77, AK of hearts and spades and offsuite combos? Can a worse hand call? Def. all flush draws.

I would say that mid pocket pairs are not likely folding vs one bet. When you cbet you should have not only valuebets but bluffs too. That means villains like to float. He can easily float with some broadway combos too. Hero's 3betting range will have a lot of crap that doesn't hit this board.

When we start comparing equities:

Board: 9♣2♣4♦
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    47.15%  47.15%   0.00% { AdQd }
MP3    52.85%  52.85%   0.00% { QcJc, JcTc, 8c7c, 8c6c, 7c6c, 7c5c }

You can see that flush draws are not necessarily worse.

So to conclude:
Difficult to play IP, our hand is weak, not too many better hands are folding and even those hands you think are weaker and could call us are not weaker in reality.

Yap, seams I'm Cbeting a little to much. So check/call flop, check/fold turn unimproved, right?

Yea that is what I would do. I would continue playing if our equity improves, so any diamond, A, Q, 3 or 5. That is 22 cards? Which would be almost half of the remaining deck.

Originally posted by Oly0909
Why check flop? We have backdoor straight draw, backdoor nut flush draw and 2 overs. Can a better hand fold? Maybe 66, 77, AK of hearts and spades and offsuite combos? Can a worse hand call? Def. all flush draws.
What do I miss here? For me it's clear Cbet on flop. Turn check is standard as well. On river, I would rather bluffcatch with this hand, but bet/fold should be fine I think.

What backdoor SD on flop ?

Think he meant FD

I would also xc OTF OOP. IP would be a bet indeed and turn as well but that's not the case here.
OTR we don't have 50% equity so even a protection bet has no use here

Originally posted by nitrol
What backdoor SD on flop ?

A24

Originally posted by la55i
Yea that is what I would do. I would continue playing if our equity improves, so any diamond, A, Q, 3 or 5. That is 22 cards? Which would be almost half of the remaining deck.

Exactly, that's what I ment by "improved".

Originally posted by Oly0909
Yap, seams I'm Cbeting a little to much. So check/call flop, check/fold turn unimproved, right?

- Don't do this.

CBET the flop of course, this is extremely good hand for bluff, continue barreling ott if improved and as played x/c river.

This is a general comment.

Interesting thread. Here's my view: Aggressive poker is winning poker. The whole business of check-calling is weak poker, usually made with weak hands by weak players. Cards are face up, we usually are drawing to max six outs when calling a normal 75% bet. Any remotely competent player can at the lower limits assign a weak check-calling range and safely barrel his whole range; this is good you say? If the remotely competent player decides to fire turn again (and this he will do because he knows you are capped) you have to fold. The argument that "our hand is not strong enough to bet - so we check-call" is rarely correct. It is often totally the other way around.

Did you ever hear the old maxim; you need a much stronger hand to call a bet than to make a bet yourself?

I see many hands where people check-call early on when actually both bet-folding and check-folding is superior.

Things are different on the river and multiway.

It's really hard for me to come up with bluffs for us on the river?
hands like QJ KQ we're betting on the turn, all other hands have pairs
So yeah I'd bet smaller on the river or check call

we must always play X/call GOOD EQ because we are OOP ??? I dont think so
We can not forget ,that we play SB , From SB you need to play aggressively
from SB playerpool 3-bets much less , Why the opponent, do not believe me in my TOP here
After all, we are targeting a wide open range from BTN

why bet flop ??? if you see board you think you have maybe 40% , really you have 50,6%
if we bets flop all calling range villain on this flop once X/call and the same OTT ,i want protect my hand , if he raised flop OK we have hand When we do not want to risk everything

turn X/behind >>> X/call no 2nd barrel , I think the opponent most often x turn Than hit by a weak hand or something that does not fit (floats ♦) , we still targets a lot of worse suited/off aces ,no only FD and some brodways

river easy X/call as played Our line allows us to do so . Someone with me agrees ???

sorry for my english

If we have backdoor equity dosen't it makes more sense to have those type of hands in our c/C range as we will be able to realiese our equity and we won't be raised of our equity.

Simply when villian checks back turn we can exclude all two pairs+ from villians range. But when we leads we force villian to have a hand. it's hard to find a bluff in villians range tbh.

J9s,AcQc,KcQc,AcJc,KcJc,QcJc,AcTc,KcTc,QcTc,JcTc,9c8c,8c7c