[NL2-NL10] NL25 AKs preflop facing 3-bet

    • sm112
      sm112
      Black
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 213
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $6,80
      MP3:
      $28,80

      0,1/0,25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A:heart: , K:heart:
      UTG2 folds, Hero raises to $1,00, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $3,00, 5 folds, MP3 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $2,35

      His 3-bet range is 3% and according to equilator i have 42% equity. Is it a correct fold in that case or should i also take fold equity to my shove into consideration?

      And is it a correct fold if my stack is exactly 5$?



      Of the topic - a "fried fish moment" i would like to share :)


      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q:heart: , Q:diamond:
      3 folds, CO raises to $1,00, BU folds, Hero raises to $5,60 (All-In), BB folds, CO calls $4,60.

      Flop: ($11,45) 3:heart: , 2:heart: , 7:diamond:
      Turn: ($11,45) J:heart:
      River: ($11,45) Q:spade: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $11,45

      Results follow:
      Hero shows three of a kind, queens (Qh Qd)
      CO shows high card ace with queen kicker (Ac Tc)

      And some hands later with the same guy..


      Preflop: Hero is UTG2 with A:spade: , K:spade:
      UTG1 folds, Hero calls $0,25, 6 folds, BB raises to $1,25, Hero raises to $3,50, BB calls $2,25.

      Flop: ($7,10) K:club: , 6:diamond: , 4:heart: (2 players)
      BB bets $6,45 (All-In), Hero calls $6,45.

      Turn: ($20,00) 8:diamond:
      River: ($20,00) 9:club: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $20,00

      Results follow:
      Hero shows a pair of kings (As Ks)
      BB shows a pair of kings (Kh Js)

      Funny, but i have moments like this in the end of almost every session.
  • 13 replies
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Your bigger stack makes this decision a bit tougher, but I would still go broke here without time to make calculations.

      As you said yourself you get 42.8% equity against 3% range which is most probably correct range in this spot, but your pot odds demand 43.8% equity.

      1/[(6.8$*2 + 0.35$)*0.95]*5.80$ --> 0.4376

      Well, you see you made correct decision, but with 20bb stack it's always correct to go broke with AK.
    • mishuq
      mishuq
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 436
      I'd also go broke here maybe 80 % of the time when I multitable 10+ , but I must say I respect your decision as I always get some satisfaction when I fold because I had enough time to calculate my equity.
      with a bigger stack, it isn't recommended to shove here as an mp player raising a short stack in utg would usually hold a strong enough hand to make it unprofitable for you
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Originally posted by burek2000
      Your bigger stack makes this decision a bit tougher, but I would still go broke here without time to make calculations.

      As you said yourself you get 42.8% equity against 3% range which is most probably correct range in this spot, but your pot odds demand 43.8% equity.

      1/[(6.8$*2 + 0.35$)*0.95]*5.80$ --> 0.4376

      Well, you see you made correct decision, but with 20bb stack it's always correct to go broke with AK.
      Hey guys, please help me out a little with this math. I didn't understand all the parts of your equation here Burek, would you be so kind to explain it to me? =D

      This is what I would have done:

      1/ 1+[(6.8$ + 1$ + 0.35$)/5.8$] = 1/ 1+ (8,15/5,80) = 1/2,4 = 0,41 = 41%

      That is: 1/ 1+[(pot) / (hero´s investment)]

      What am I missing here?
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      I admit, my equation is a bit messed up. ^^

      Basically your and mine equation are the same, except I included rake as well.

      Well, my equation is something like this....

      {1/[(final pot)*rake]}*hero's investment

      ...where final pot = pot + hero's investment.

      In your equation, + hero's investment is included in 1/ 1+[(pot) / (hero´s investment)]

      I hope this is more clear. :)
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Oh yes, it does! That is what the 0.95 stood for then, rake. I get it now, cheers.
    • sm112
      sm112
      Black
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 213
      This hand came at the end of my session and most of the tables were closed, so i had some time to think about it before folding. I folded because of the bigger stack and i think i don't have fold equity at all when shoving, so it was a correct fold then.
      And as I can see, you definitely would go broke with 20BB stack, even against a tight player. This question actually interested me even more.
    • mishuq
      mishuq
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2008 Posts: 436
      Originally posted by sm112
      And as I can see, you definitely would go broke with 20BB stack, even against a tight player. This question actually interested me even more.
      I think it would be interesting to think about this hand from all points of view (positions, stacks, stats and so on) if it were to be played in a NL100 + game. I now the strategy is more advanced there and, because I've seen xarry folding pocket queens in eg in a couple of almost identical situations, I wonder if that could change a bit the perspective
      in my opinion, with a stack of 25 BBs or more it's still a good fold, but what if you're somewhere in between 18 bbs and 24 ?
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Hero in this hand has more than 29BBs and only lacks 0.5% of equity to go broke, so everything from 25BB and below is a push with AKs if you put villain on range AK/JJ+ or looser.

      For each individual situation you have to make calculations and then you see what's profitable and what's not, but when there's +/- <1% difference in equity I prefer to just stick to basic strategy and put calculations aside.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      fold preflop, leave table with >25BB or play only AA and KK with that stack.
    • IngolPoker
      IngolPoker
      Black
      Joined: 05.09.2006 Posts: 10,467
      1) push preflop, you cant just take the 3bet value because he will play a lot different against SSSers
      2) nh
      3) raise preflop.....what are you doing there? :(
    • sm112
      sm112
      Black
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 213
      Third one.. I'm not feeling convenient with double stack, that's why the weird play. And the villain was a fish on tilt..
    • IngolPoker
      IngolPoker
      Black
      Joined: 05.09.2006 Posts: 10,467
      you feel unconvinient = you are afraid of being outdrawn, so you limp??? not THAT logical

      and as soon as somebody shows strength by raising, THEN you reraise..... it really doesnt make any sense ^^
    • sm112
      sm112
      Black
      Joined: 14.10.2008 Posts: 213
      Yes, I admit I played it totally wrong :)
      But when limping I was actually hoping that this particular guy will raise and everything went exactly as planned. As I said, he wasn't a good player and I was 100% sure he's on tilt, that's why I was waiting for his raise. And after the flop I was 100% sure I was ahead. But in the future I will stick to the strategy, that's a promise ;)