Dont understand thinking of some players

    • Pe4Ce2
      Pe4Ce2
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2008 Posts: 64
      Last night I play 5 + 0.50 MTT Rebuy Regular Speed tournament. After 4 hours of playing on the buble, when 165 people left and 150 get paied, happend to me some strange thing....

      Blinds were 1200/600 wiht 120 ante. I had around 10 000 chips and was on 149 position. Player behind me had almost same amount and were 147, so we both afraid bubble, or at least i though that. ... I was on SB and everyone in front of me folded, so I push to collect nice pot of 3000 chips and BB call me ...

      ... and my first question, what is your calling range on these spots? Mostly I am very tight player so i will on the buble call with AK, QQ+ ... i know that calls with TT, JJ and so are most of the time +EV, but i just dont wana risk ...

      ... well, he calls me, shows me the J6s, hit his six and i was busted from tournament on 165 place and dont get prize for 150 place, which was around 20$ (which is much money for me).

      ... and my second question, what can run througt mind of guy who make call like this? Eaven very big donks dont calls like this. ... most probable scenarion is, that one young small brave peanut jump from from china food and accidetly hit the mouse on the tabel and pres "Call" ..
  • 15 replies
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      Originally posted by Pe4Ce2
      Mostly I am very tight player so i will on the buble call with
      Being tight on the bubble = fail. Not saying you should call off pushes for your stack with J6s, but this player probably understands that you could push any 2 from SB first in, and J6s is in the top ~45% of hands so basically he could think himself ahead of your range here (since youre a nit, obviously he wasnt, but still). I think some tourney guru can explain this better than me..


      20$ (which is much money for me).
      If $20 is a lot for you, then don't play $5.5 tourneys :P
    • Pe4Ce2
      Pe4Ce2
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2008 Posts: 64
      I know, that most pro say "Loosen Up on buble, when are people afraid to bust out" but thats just not style i play. Most of the time, I am not going for first prize, but for some money.

      And the bankrool? Let me explain my thinking about this. In R/A tournaments, are many players which are extremly loose in first rebuy hour (I know its just how rebuy should be played) and i use it ... combinated with my very tight play few times double up and I accumulate enough chips, to survive on payed places, just because its regular speed, so blind increase slowly and pepole bust each other out, so in 50% I get on "some" money ... not the first prizes at all, but most of the time somethink like 4 - 6 times buy-in, which is nice.

      Most people just play loose, and try to get big chip stack and get on final tabel. I dont, i just SURVIVE ... thats my way of playing this :) .. so i hardly disagre my bankrool ... yes .. but it is just because after few hours of playing, i dont wana get 5 time 2 dolars prize, but five times 5 dolar prize, which is very nice 20$ profit ....

      Please, write me what you think about my way of play. I wana know, what other people thinks about this :)
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      I don't understand... why don't you play $2 and go for the top prize every time, which is much more than $20? If you're thinking "oh but I will play for 4 hours and what if I bust or win only $6 so that means I wasted all my time for nothing etc... etc.." then this is TOTALLY the wrong approach to poker. You have to give it all the time it needs, and you have to accept that even if you play a session for 20 hours non-stop you can still end up losing or breakeven.

      Are you expecting anyone here to congratulate & encourage you on your "scared money" play, lack of BRM, and entering an MTT just to cash?

      - Scared money is dead money.
      - If you don't enter every tournament to win the FIRST PRIZE, then don't play tournaments.
      - People worked hard on the theories of good BRM for A VERY GOOD REASON, not just because they're bored.

      If you can multi-table then that can be a good option. It reduces variance and at least you will feel like you're doing more with your time. IMO play 4 $2 tournaments at the same time is better than a $5 one.
    • Pe4Ce2
      Pe4Ce2
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2008 Posts: 64
      Thx for reply nafar84.

      - I dont play 2$ rebuy because its too crazy game for me, when you push with AK and 5 players call you, only because buy-in is so cheap.

      - I am not scared of wasted time and I dont play "only" for money, but i need them to play, because if your BR is Zero, your gone ..

      - .. and i wrote it a little bit wrong. OfCourse i am going for a win every time I play, but i mean it for some situations when you hold AQ and are preaty sure that someone, who push in front of you hold some PP. .. .. players who are going for the win will Call and hope, that they wins a flip .. .. i fold and save my chips ... so i mean it like that ..

      Originally posted by nafar84
      Are you expecting anyone here to congratulate & encourage you on your "scared money" play, lack of BRM, and entering an MTT just to cash?
      No no, I expected reply like you wrote and I am glad for it :) .. i need to hear it from someone .. If i would be honest, I am ....... (fill any word: desperd, going crazy, mad, sad, angry, tired ..) of playing micro limits SnGs (1 or 2$ in my case) .... its so hard. Rakes are 20% of buy-ins not 10% like its normal so it is harder to end with profit .... second point is, that games on these micro limits is much different .. people dont respect odds at all, when is bubble with one extra shortie and you push with AQ .. some of them are able to call you with KT for all their chips and bust you out ..... or you simply call someones ALL in with AK and player behind you goes ALL in too into two players with QJ and luckly suckouts ... and so on and so on ...

      ... and dont tell me, that in longrun its profitable ... i know that ....

      Sorry for my cryout here .. :( ... but its so ...
    • p0kerQT
      p0kerQT
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,300
      Hi Pe4Ce2, I can totally understand how you feel, its happened to us all before, the other day I pushed KJo from MP with 12 BB left at 50/100 blinds, to my amazement SB called with 53o, they had around the same chips as me... most times I would be happy to take their chips but the flop came 55x n I was out, I also lost with flopped 2 pair vs a back door flush that called me down n hit the river, but you gotta laugh these things off coz if you let them affect you you'll be pulling ur hair out n not be able to play your best game.

      I'm concerned about ur BRM tho, you're playing $5 rebuys when you should be playin $1-$2 sng's? I've grinded the $1 ones and even with the rake, they're so easy to beat... It could take a long time but its the only way without risking ur BR, if you don't like it try another game like FL or SSS.

      Before I knew about BRM I managed to get from $34~ to $800 coz I got lucky in some mtt's, but I realised I don't know anythin about the game n went on a downswing n cashed out my money that was left. So I decided to start all over from the beginning, and it has been a tough grind but I'm a better player now and I'm more confident in my game. So you just have to be patient and stick at it, you'll get there in the end if you really try.
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      You should be happy when you push AQ and someone calls with KT... imagine if everytime you pushed AQ some called with AA instead, would that make you feel better?
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Originally posted by Pe4Ce2
      - .. and i wrote it a little bit wrong. OfCourse i am going for a win every time I play, but i mean it for some situations when you hold AQ and are preaty sure that someone, who push in front of you hold some PP. .. .. players who are going for the win will Call and hope, that they wins a flip .. .. i fold and save my chips ... so i mean it like that ..
      Avoiding coinflips when you have a comfortable stack is actually a very good strategy. Going for first prize doesn't mean play like a maniac.

      My point is, as your stack approaches 15 BB or less, you need to find spots to double up, and you have to start thinking about preserving your Fold Equity (because it becomes the most important thing in the late stages of the tournament), regardless of how close you are to the bubble. Even if there is only one player remaining for the cash, you have to completely ignore it and think of the best profitable move in the situation. AQ becomes almost the nuts because so many people at that stage will push with any Ace or QJo KJo that sort of thing... they don't always have to have PP... a lot of the time you will have them completely dominated!

      You will bust and get bad beats & coolers, but the time you reach that final table and make some serious cash you will forget about all these things and it will all seem worthwhile.


      No no, I expected reply like you wrote and I am glad for it :) .. i need to hear it from someone .. If i would be honest, I am ....... (fill any word: desperd, going crazy, mad, sad, angry, tired ..) of playing micro limits SnGs (1 or 2$ in my case) .... its so hard. Rakes are 20% of buy-ins not 10% like its normal so it is harder to end with profit .... second point is, that games on these micro limits is much different .. people dont respect odds at all, when is bubble with one extra shortie and you push with AQ .. some of them are able to call you with KT for all their chips and bust you out ..... or you simply call someones ALL in with AK and player behind you goes ALL in too into two players with QJ and luckly suckouts ... and so on and so on ...
      Everyone has gone through this very frustrating period, but you have to know that in the long r....
      ... and dont tell me, that in longrun its profitable ... i know that ....
      Oh OK :D

      Well what else can I say... hang in there man, as you watch your BR grow you will be very proud and very glad that you didn't go on tilt and put everything on a roulette spin :D
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      Originally posted by Pe4Ce2
      ... and dont tell me, that in longrun its profitable ... i know that ....
      Then we should probably tell you that in the short run winning is based largely on luck. I don't know exactly how variance works out for SnGs, but in a cash game even a winning playing is not guaranteed to break-even until around 50,000 hands. (guaranteed meaning 3 standard deviations.)

      Even more annoying is the fact that the exact two same winning players after 50,000 hands can have as much as a 3,000BB bankroll difference.

      These stats are based on 4 BB/100 winrate and 25 SD/100 play style in case anyone wants to do the math themselves.
    • Pe4Ce2
      Pe4Ce2
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2008 Posts: 64
      Originally posted by tokyoaces
      Then we should probably tell you that in the short run winning is based largely on luck.
      Yep, but you must translate it to my language ... : ".. in the short run loosing is based largely on bad luck." .. :D ... (I have suckout period now ..)

      ... well i know, its poker .. nothing to tell more about bad beats and suckouts ..

      But get back to question in first post about calling range on buble. I will realy aprichiate your comennts about that.

      BTW, thx all for replys
    • MrPavlos
      MrPavlos
      Global
      Joined: 12.02.2009 Posts: 553
      You should be happy when you push AQ and someone calls with KT... imagine if everytime you pushed AQ some called with AA instead, would that make you feel better? 2
      Absolutely correct!!!
    • Pe4Ce2
      Pe4Ce2
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2008 Posts: 64
      Well, playing for the win style is looks much more better now :D

    • anstaendig
      anstaendig
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2006 Posts: 3,833
      congratz
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      well done :D
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      A couple of points I learned about tourney play lately that I'd like to share:

      1. We don't play to win
      2. We don't play to cash
      3. We play to increase our equity


      Congrats on the 4th place.
    • Mstlc
      Mstlc
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Gotta love iPoker... You have won $55.02 (Yes|No). WHAT YES OR NO? No! I don't want those $55???
      I wonder how hard is it to make an OK button instead :>

      Congrats thou. $55 in a $1 freezeout is a pretty good cash. 5500% ROI ftw :)