[NL2-NL10] NL 2 - Top 2 on the river

    • randompkr
      Joined: 08.01.2009 Posts: 76
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:

      Preflop: Hero is BU with Q, J.
      MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.02, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.10, SB folds, BB calls $0.08, MP3 calls $0.08.

      Flop: ($0.31) 4, T, J (3 players)
      BB bets $0.10, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $0.35, BB calls $0.25.

      Turn: ($1.01) 2 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.46, Hero calls $0.46.

      River: ($1.93) Q (2 players)
      BB bets $4.08, Hero calls $2.47.

      Final Pot: $8.48.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, queens and jacks(Q J).
      BB shows a straight, king high(9 K).

      BB wins with a straight, king high(9 K).

      I think the river was instamuck, but how should I've played to turn?
  • 4 replies
    • purpleshoes21
      Joined: 23.04.2008 Posts: 100
      His line of b/c on the flop and then betting again on the turn looks very strong to me, so I think that you should have folded the turn. (I could be completely wrong of course)
    • MancaMulas
      Joined: 12.03.2009 Posts: 4,494
      I would fold pre-flop

      there may be a completed straight, but with a split pair I would play agressively but not to create a huge pot
    • Mstlc
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 4,676
      Originally posted by MancaMulas
      I would fold pre-flop
      QJo is definitely a hand you wanna be raising with pre-flop from the button. So pre-flop is perfect.

      Flop: ok. Althou I'd raise bigger to ~50c.

      Turn: I dunno... his 1/2 pot bet isn't very strong but I wouldn't wanna be raising here with just TPGK. A call is possible... but a fold wouldn't be wrong either. I'd probably edge more towards a fold.

      River: Overshove on this board is ALWAYS a fold unless you have the absolute nuts.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510

      QJo is a fine hand to isolate a limper, preflop is fine.

      On the flop when an unknown donkbet smallish, he either

      - has no idea what he is doing and is betting his made hand's strength with some kind of arbitrary values ("i have bottom pair, it's only worth 1/5 pot" / "i have top pair, i'm all-in" )


      - he is blockbetting to draw cheaply (and will call any raise anyway, paying even more than if he had check/called).

      On both cases the correct response is to raise for value in position with TPGK.

      On the turn it's trickier because you are ~170bb deep or so. I'd expect weaker made hands then yours to shutdown after your raise tho, so i think he mostly has a draw when he donks smallish again.

      - If you had 100bb stacks i would shove over his weak donk for value, he might call with a worse made hand and he might also call with a draw, these players try to draw cheaply but that doesn't mean they can lay it down even if it becomes very expensive.

      - With 170bb stacks however, you probably don't want to go broke right here, and folding would be too weak as he rarely has you beat on the turn. I would just call and look for a safe river.

      The Q river is interesting, as it completes some draws (98, K9) while giving a top pair to another draw (KQ), and bad players might very well shove "for value" all those hands on that particular card. However, since we can account for two Q already, 98/K9 are more likely than KQ.

      You have 20% equity against { KQ, K9, 98 }, which means you need 4:1 odds to make the call. I think you should lay it down since you're getting even less than 2:1 pot odds, as even accounting for the difference by putting more marginal hands in his range would be difficult.

      Hope it helps.