MTT's vs Cash Games

    • Jeero
      Jeero
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.04.2009 Posts: 113
      I'm a long time cash game player (long as in 8 months), and I have very little tournament experience. However, I enjoy tournaments a lot! I find them much more fun than the monotonous grind of cash games. But it seems like most people who make money off of poker make money from cash games. I can see that cash games might be more stable, but I can't ignore the prospect of having a massive win in an MTT. I also noticed that in general, in every tournament that I've played, the players are much much weaker than the players I play against in cash games.

      Can someone give me some insight on tournaments? Which ones to stay away from, what tournaments to look for, etc. I read some of the articles on sng strategy so I know about hands, BR requirements, etc. Here is an example of what I mean; a while ago I played in a freeroll tournament and got 6th for something like $9,... the tournament had like 3000 people in it. I would say that that is totally not worth it! Also, I have never won an MTT. How often do people win these things? Do people make a living off of grinding small stakes MTT's?
  • 19 replies
    • CheeKeh
      CheeKeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.12.2009 Posts: 39
      just think, the freerolls are good for good players who went on a massive downhill journey into brokeness :p

      and yeah it is possible to make a living from MTT´s and SNG´s :D

      look at people like phil ivey and that who enter the main event every year.. they make the money most years and make more money than a lot of people do all year for working a dead hard 9-5 job :p
    • Justin37
      Justin37
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      Joined: 25.07.2009 Posts: 445
      I thou Phil Ivey won more money from cash game than Tournament?
    • Bojan1983
      Bojan1983
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      Joined: 15.11.2006 Posts: 92
      That is because cash games are at much higher level then tournaments... he can allways find 500/1000$ cash game, which is usually played with 100k$, while most expensive tournament is arround 10k...
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,069
      I like MTT's too but don't like SNG's. I play cash. How do you think is it +EV to play in a MTT, if you know very little about tournament strategy, but at least you know about poker something more than fishes (odds, hand protection etc..)?
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
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      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      I'm also a cash game player but I dream of a giant win in an MTT, jsut knowing $1 could turn into over $2000 is enough to make me want to get good at them. Only problem is they go on for ages and sometimes other commitments stop you playing your A-Game.
    • Jeero
      Jeero
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.04.2009 Posts: 113
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      I like MTT's too but don't like SNG's. I play cash. How do you think is it +EV to play in a MTT, if you know very little about tournament strategy, but at least you know about poker something more than fishes (odds, hand protection etc..)?
      I don't know how you inferred that from my post. I am simply starting to invest more time into tournaments, and wanted some advice from people who have made good observances.
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Yeah first places are offten big payouts...but the varriance in MTT's is huge so the big first place is compinsated by brutal varriance...Cash games are the most profitable....
    • Moonwolf52000
      Moonwolf52000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 58
      can people make a living playing sng and mtt.. hum look a t boku lol so yes it can be done.

      as a cash game player you will have a good edge against players in the first couple of levels since you're used to play with a deep stack, however your edge will decrease as the blinds go up little by little since tournaments will often be played in the middle stage with roughly 30 bb-50 bb deep.

      which tournament you should stay away from ? If I were you I would stay away from turbos since your edge will decrease rapidly and you might not be used to play profitably in a push or fold strategy just yet.

      now which tourney you should look for... well if you can find a small stake tourney which advertise a big money guarantee or any added money tournament which is a boost to your expected value then go for it

      You can always play a 45 or 180 man sit and go which is in fact a mtt

      as for the stakes, anything at 20$ and more and you will face real players in general so your edge will be smaller but below that chanes are you'll find some juicy fish who will just give their chips away... you just need to recognize what kind of table you have and adapt yourself to it just like in a cash game

      hope that helps a bit

      moonwolf
    • CheeKeh
      CheeKeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.12.2009 Posts: 39
      i didnt say that he made more money from tournys than he does from cash game.. all i was saying is that he does make a reasonable living from tournies such as the main event.. even if he didnt play cash games he could live quite happily off what he wins at tournies :p
    • timukasr
      timukasr
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      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      You need hell of a lot time to understand what tournaments really are, I guess you have to find out by yourself.
    • Jeero
      Jeero
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.04.2009 Posts: 113
      Thanks for the advice Moonwolf. What is your take on those $11 $30k guarenteed tournaments? One the one hand, the top three prizes are really good but you also have to play against 5000 people, which is so many people you have to beat.
    • Moonwolf52000
      Moonwolf52000
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 58
      well for the 30k tourney which I gues is at pokerstars... the structure is actually nice with 3000 stacks and blinds going up at 10 minutes. So plenty of people who won't have a clue what they're doing. ie they don't take the kicker into account

      and don't think about the number of people , think more about your stack size in relation to the blinds and don't check the average stack as it will always go up

      though with a big field you will see people dropping like flies at first.

      but if i were you I would go for a smaller buy-in at 2 or 5$ so you can get a feel of playing in a big tourney thne you can see if you like it or not.

      moonwolf
    • KidPokersKid
      KidPokersKid
      Global
      Joined: 27.02.2009 Posts: 653
      Try your luck at some small stakes rebuys since if you are a cash game players you should be decent at playing deep and if you do get sucked out you can always just rebuy which is nice. Also rebuys usually have smaller player pools but big cash pools
      Also the other good MTTs are slow strucutre and deep stack because you will be better post flop than most other since you have lots of CG experience.
    • Jeero
      Jeero
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.04.2009 Posts: 113
      I just spent all day playing tournaments, and I have come out with a net loss. I think I played quite well today, but I did not win a single tournament! :( The closest I got was 7th, which I am happy about, but it was only for ~$15. I cashed in many of the tournaments, but after two hours of playing getting 1.5x my buy-in seemed hardly worth it. However, what's much worse is that I busted just before the money on a couple of occasions. I went deep in almost all of the tournaments I played in, which is encouraging, but kinda sucks because it feels a little like a waste of time.

      KidPokersKid: I played a rebuy tournament, and I didn't like it. I don't really know how to play it. It's also very dangerous in that you can spend so much money rebuying. The players gamble a lot, and I believe it's somewhat reasonable because if they can get lucky and build a big stack it's worth it. As a result you probably have to gamble a lot early too. Which is okay, but that just means that $5 rebuy tournament can actually be a $30, $40+ tournament (I think you should double rebuy every time).

      I think I will play more tournaments when I get sick of cash games, but I should stick to cash games to build my bankroll. I'd really like to win an MTT one day though,... I want to win so bad!
    • KidPokersKid
      KidPokersKid
      Global
      Joined: 27.02.2009 Posts: 653
      Yea I know rebuys are expensive but the prize pools get so massive and the players are really bad, there are two different ways to play them; stay tight and try to stack off the gamblers or take the loose approach but like you said it can cost you alot...
      if you play low enough stakes people don't even use stats, i played a $5 1rebuy + 1 add-on event where i was playing like 9/7 and getting 3way action after 25 minues of not playing a hand when I open CO first in with QQ, you just need to adapt to the kinds fishys around the table

      MTTs are about long term results you can not cash for ages but then hit a jackpot by ending up winning like 200 times your buyin or something like that.

      anyways best of luck to you in the future. :f_biggrin:
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by timukasr
      You need hell of a lot time to understand what tournaments really are, I guess you have to find out by yourself.
      hi mate, your silver. hihi

      byyye
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Well my small frustration is that in SNG's there's basically no place for you at stakes higher than 50$ i guess... Basically you can't beat the game any more.

      And i guess if you're good enough you can beat cash games up to 500-1k $.

      Other than that SNG's are great and profits are nice. I would recommend you to stay away from MTT's unless you are sucididal (sick variance).
    • lennonac
      lennonac
      Global
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 1,421
      Originally posted by andreibalint
      Well my small frustration is that in SNG's there's basically no place for you at stakes higher than 50$ i guess... Basically you can't beat the game any more.

      And i guess if you're good enough you can beat cash games up to 500-1k $.

      Other than that SNG's are great and profits are nice. I would recommend you to stay away from MTT's unless you are sucididal (sick variance).
      Simply not true, all levels of sng's are beatable and are being beaten
    • davidgod
      davidgod
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      Joined: 20.12.2008 Posts: 1,675
      I know one person make a living by playing MTTs
      He have vedio in pokerstrategy , but it is risky because one day he said he had 500 dollar downwind without major pay out.
      And he play mtt prety well I have played with him in the same table before. Very aggressive.

      You should be very tight and the beginning and very loose at the end. (problably everyone knows it)
      but honestly I am not good at mtts, and I do not want to invest too much time in it. Several hours playing with 2 or 3 buyin back is unworthy to me.