[NL2-NL10] Did I waste money?

    • dicekeyrollz
      dicekeyrollz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 74
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      MP2:
      $4.13
      MP3:
      $11.00
      CO:
      $6.27
      BU:
      $5.00
      SB:
      $1.91
      BB:
      $4.00
      UTG2:
      $6.30
      MP1 (Hero):
      $5.14


      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6, 6.
      UTG2 calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.05, 4 folds, SB calls $0.03, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0.2) A, 3, 6 (4 players)
      SB checks, BB checks, UTG2 checks, Hero checks.

      Turn: ($0.2) 7 (4 players)
      SB bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10, UTG2 calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, SB calls $0.30, BB folds, UTG2 calls $0.30.

      River: ($1.5) A (3 players)
      SB checks, UTG2 checks, Hero bets $0.70, SB calls $0.70, UTG2 folds.

      Final Pot: $2.9.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows a full-house, sixs full of aces(6 6).
      SB shows a straight, seven high(4 5).

      Hero wins with a full-house, sixs full of aces(6 6).

      Seeing his hand in retrospect, I probably would've been able to get all his chips in the middle. I'm boggled, however, with what I would've done if the Ace didn't come on the river. I couldn't really imagine myself making the same play, since a flush draw would fold, a 7 would have a very small chance of calling, two pair would give their money to me, but the nuts (straight) would be raking in my donation. So in that same situation without the river Ace, I probably would've bet the same amount to extract doubt from twopair and 7-pair, and I guess be beat by the made straight.

      Comments? Suggestions, constructive criticisms about the way this hand was played?
  • 11 replies
    • Timo
      Timo
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.08.2008 Posts: 522
      Hey dicekeyrollz,

      in order to get your hands evaluated, you have to post it into our sample hands forum. The professional handjudges of PokerStrategy.com are happy to help you there.

      For the future I would also like to ask you to give your threads an informative headline so our judges know what to expect. You should probably have a look at this this sticky, it contains all the information on how to post a sample hand.

      I moved this thread into the No Limit BSS Bronze Forum for you.

      Regards,
      Timo
    • Duudalinja
      Duudalinja
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2009 Posts: 1,030
      I would bet flop. Board is not that drawy, but it's limped pot and they could limp with hell knows what. But still, MP1 is shortstack, so I can't see way to avoid stacking him off at some point. 45 is basically the only hand on turn that beats you, but his range is a lot wider. And don't forget you have more callers. River ofc is clear bet and I would even bet more - if UTG2 has some stuff he wants to call with, let him do that costly.
    • STR82ACE
      STR82ACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.10.2008 Posts: 389
      Bet flop, at least 2/3. You want the ace holders to call you here.
      Raising turn is good, solid. His call should have you questioning his range though.
      River card is your money maker but you have to be careful. I would have made a bigger river bet here myself to get paid off, and fold to any decent raise.

      edit; my bad...call any raise/ai. neglected to see how much he would have after your bet
      NH
    • dicekeyrollz
      dicekeyrollz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 74
      You guys have been suggesting betting, which in all its entirety I understand the logic of, but I reckoned that with none of them betting, and none of them really slowplayers, I wanted to give them a card to catch up instead of fold against my flop bet.
    • Bascht
      Bascht
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2006 Posts: 395
      seriously: which card?
    • dicekeyrollz
      dicekeyrollz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 74
      Oh yeah, sorry for not mentioning that. It seems you guys were recommending me to bet the flop to coax some value from the one who hit an Ace, but I didn't believe at that time that anybody had an Ace, so betting there would just get everybody to fold, was my logic.
    • STR82ACE
      STR82ACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.10.2008 Posts: 389
      And what's wrong with that? Seriously, take the pot on the flop if possible. By checking this, you let villain catch his straight, and were lucky to boat up on the end. Could have cost you a lot of money on the river otherwise.

      Its far better to take a small pot on the flop than lose a big one on the river.
    • dicekeyrollz
      dicekeyrollz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 74
      The two last points, that I let him catch my straight, and was lucky to catch my boat, are true and valid. However, there are a lot of other hands that villain could call with on the turn should a favorable card (which still loses to me) comes. Ergo, give a free card and let them hit two pair, or a pair of kings and conceal the strength of my hand. 45 is one hand out of a thousand in his range in this limped pot. But, given that, I would've proceeded with more caution had the boat not come.
    • johnbeattie85
      johnbeattie85
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 716
      You can't assume:

      1) Villians will always bet if they have an ace. It's pretty standard to check some mid ace on such a dry board multiway.

      2) Villians will always fold worse made hands than Ax if you bet.

      If villian is too weak to call the flop, there are very few turn cards that can change the situation. It's really hard to turn two pair here without also having Ax. So to catch up, it will mainly be if they have like 22, and the turn is a 2. However, this event is very rare. Imo - the value gained from letting them catch up is, on average, far less than the value lost from not betting.

      As played, you should be raising/betting larger on the turn and river.
    • MaestroOfZerg
      MaestroOfZerg
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 5,510
      Hi,

      Originally posted by johnbeattie85
      You can't assume:

      1) Villians will always bet if they have an ace. It's pretty standard to check some mid ace on such a dry board multiway.

      2) Villians will always fold worse made hands than Ax if you bet.

      If villian is too weak to call the flop, there are very few turn cards that can change the situation. It's really hard to turn two pair here without also having Ax. So to catch up, it will mainly be if they have like 22, and the turn is a 2. However, this event is very rare. Imo - the value gained from letting them catch up is, on average, far less than the value lost from not betting.

      As played, you should be raising/betting larger on the turn and river.
      This.

      At microstakes the biggest mistakes people are making is calling too much and not valuebetting enough. When you decide to slowplay a monster hand you don't take advantage of the first mistake made by your opponents, and you make the second mistake yourself. The "just bet your strong hands and hope somebody has something he can call with" approach is usually far more effective, especially on boards where it's hard for people to improve on the turn anyway.

      If some fish has Ax he'll call you down for 3 streets or even raise somewhere and you'll get a stack, which is a lot better than letting someone catch a K or something on the turn, that he may or may not even check/call one street with given that the A is on board.


      Hope it helps.
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Personally i like to slowplay trips like you did on dry boards. If it's a board with 2 cards of the same suit or like 9-10 or A-K-J or something like that i think it's better to bet out and make sure they don't complete their draw.

      If they don't hold an ace they will usualy instantly fold. However if for example a king comes on the turn. They might think "hey, no one probably has an Ace because they all checked so my pair of kings is probably good" So then you would actualy get paid off alot more..


      I'd have played it the same way you did.


      edit: didn't realise the thread was old. I saw it from a link from another forum so i didn't see the date.