[Closed] To smite call, or not to smite call?

Fold: 9625 chips, 0,3274, SD: $15,75
Win: 13680 chips, 0,3993
Lose: 6470 chips, 0,2592
Tie: 10075 chips, 0,336

Equity needed: 48,66%
Chip odds: 43,76%
Risk premium: 4,9%
Chips gained by marginal call: 353,61.
Ties count as 54,83% of a win.
SD of marginal call: $16,22.

I think this might be one of those spots where the flaws of ICM are obvious.
ICM overvalues the short stacks here.. Doesn't understand that they've paid blinds and will be shorter next hand. And bb also has to pay sb next hand..
And future situation if you win this hand is better than ICM suggests.. And future situations if you loose this hand are not as bad as ICM suggests..

With that said I think you might need a little less equity than ICM explorer suggests..

But I still think it's a fold.. you have the needed equity to call if he's only shoving 66-TT here.. But when we start adding some Ax to his range it becomes bad...
I also think your range is pretty loose here for an unknown.. I think unknowns are generally tighter in this spot and have some understanding of how risk averse they are here.

ps. I think you mean spite call?

ps. I think you mean spite call?

Somehow I thought that a spite call and a smite call are two different terms. While first means a call that is not based on any strategic considerations. Second one has the same range and effect but has some logic behind it and can be explained/justified.

I introduced the term smite call to mean a call with an ugly hand which looks like it is a spite call, but which is correct against the pusher's loose range given your low risk-aversion. Think of calling a small blind's open push with K3o or Q8o. A spite call is one which hurts both the pusher and the caller on average.

I'm getting a different output from ICM Explorer:

Fold: 9575 chips, 0.421, SD: $9.77
Win: 13780 chips, 0.4834
Lose: 6470 chips, 0.3719
Tie: 10125 chips, 0.4294

Equity needed: 44.03%
Chip odds: 42.48%
Risk premium: 1.56%
Chips gained by marginal call: 113.85.
Ties count as 51.51% of a win.
SD of marginal call: $10.01.

This is with bets of 650, 350, 50, 50, and chip counts of 1060, 1160, 9625, 3155.

Sometimes ICM Explorer's assumptions underestimate the equity you need. It assumes that if you fold, everyone after you folds, and if you call, there are no overcalls. Often, both possible calls and overcalls favor folding, although it should not be a big effect here because of your huge chip lead.

If you feel the CO is pushing a moderately wide range, 35% or more, then QJo seems to have enough equity. I'm not sure that I would give the CO a range that wide or that I would take hands like KK out.

The logic mentioned by the OP is suspect, since it only talked about the possible outcomes after calling. Calling and losing leaves you with about half of the chips, so it isn't so bad, but you have to compare calling with folding. If you fold, you still have the run-away chip lead.

lol @ 'smite call'. Such an easy fold bro. You stand more chance of winning by keeping the bubble alive as long as possible. THAT'S how u want to annoy the 2nd stack. I would fold most of my range even REALLY +ev calls just to keep the bubble going.