$ 6.5 K8o 4 handed

without reads its a fold.

I am getting almost 2 to 1 on my call (I need to call 1085 on 2085 pot) considering he looses all foldequity the next hand he most likely has a pretty wide pushingrange. It is even possible that I am ahead of that range and taking that with good potodds and folding would also put me in a bad spot because I would be the shortstack then.

still depends on the reads ,if he is a good player he most of the time have a wide range , i see regs pushing atc in that spot so u can call ,but if he is an unknown i dont think u re ahead so its a fold .

I call KTo + here, might be too tight?

Let's see what nash says

BB 19.5%, 22+ A2s+ A7o+ KTs+ KJo+ QTs+ JTs

As I thought, you still have enough chips after your hand to push bvb. I think you should wait for a better spot.

1.If you going with optimal nash-ranges from nash-calculator you indeed get a callingrange of 19.5 %, but this calculation presumes CO is only pushing 21.7% (33+ A2s+ A4o+ KTs+ KJo+ QTs+ JTs). Considering if he goes through the blinds he doesn't have any fold equity left which makes it much more likely he is pushing close to atc in this spot. Against a close to atc shove K8o is an easy call imo.

2. nash isn't perfect it overvalues small stack equity because it doesn't take into account the blinds hitting you the next hand

3. How do you know I get that change if the big stack is any good he would exploit most if not any spot by shoving

Originally posted by sirilidion
1.If you going with optimal nash-ranges from nash-calculator you indeed get a callingrange of 19.5 %, but this calculation presumes CO is only pushing 21.7% (33+ A2s+ A4o+ KTs+ KJo+ QTs+ JTs). Considering if he goes through the blinds he doesn't have any fold equity left which makes it much more likely he is pushing close to atc in this spot. Against a close to atc shove K8o is an easy call imo.

2. nash isn't perfect it overvalues small stack equity because it doesn't take into account the blinds hitting you the next hand

3. How do you know I get that change if the big stack is any good he would exploit most if not any spot by shoving

I see what you mean. Well, I am not yet very good with the Nash chart but I am trying ^^. I am just trying to get some backup to what I say. Imo calling here with K8o won't be good long term. ICM and Nash wise.

Maybe I am wrong...I will just wait what judge says. I just realize that the pusher is also the short stack i didn't see that b4..i guess if he is pushing ATC k8 could be ok to call.

call readless.

you are getting 2:1 with K8o. you have the nuts

but were cripple ourselfs by loosing? and if villain is a fish he is to tight to call. its a tabladynamic call. most of the time right but not everytime imo. fish don´t know that they loose fe and shove to tight for this one

hes shoving 3bbs UTG. even a NIT fish will push enough hands to call with K8o.

u think he open folds K8o or JTo in his position? or A2o ?

when you are getting 2:1 against your direct opponent on the bubble you can call extremely wide. (usually slightly wider than villain is pushing)

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
hes shoving 3bbs UTG. even a NIT fish will push enough hands to call with K8o.

u think he open folds K8o or JTo in his position? or A2o ?

when you are getting 2:1 against your direct opponent on the bubble you can call extremely wide. (usually slightly wider than villain is pushing)

jeah i can imagin that fish fold here jto but shove a2o and probalby k8o. they got no clue what to shove and probalby misread offsuit connectors.

ok but you wouldn´t call any2 here? you call pretty much this what do you think he´s shovin. for example you think he shove at lest 30% with i think is probably right if you polarise his range to aces and pokets ands suited cards. than you have to call i you got no reads at least 15% to be on the save side.

it depends on the fish obviously,

getting 2:1 you can call around his push range.

if u think he ships K8o, u call.

definitely not calling ATC. as a rule, when getting 2:1 call approximately villain's push range.

i think every fish is shoving Ax,broadways,22+. we need him to shove a few more hands to make this good. and i think most fish will shove hands like K8o,Q9,T9,78s etc.

i think you have to cut off weaker connectors but rest is fine thanks

just 1 more thing on this hand.

if you have been getting good first in shoves against the short stacked fish to your left you can fold the 'close' calls because you still have good fold-equity in future orbits.

but if you had the big stack on your left you would be forced to call more hands because of your reduced FE on future hands

yeah thats totally true. but we have to judge this by every -ev call or push. if you get a lot of walks you should fold too.

Originally posted by maniac
yeah thats totally true. but we have to judge this by every -ev call or push. if you get a lot of walks you should fold the very bottom of your call range too.

FYP

I consider K8o to be quite an easy call against most unknowns