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[Closed] KQ sqz NL200

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supeyrio
Joined: 11.11.2009

one of the ugly flops. villian is 12/8/1.7 steals 41% on bu folds to resteal 58% of the time.
flop and turn best play? definitely pretty crushed vs his range. my play is really bad
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($281)
Hero ($392)
UTG ($266)
UTG+1 ($127)
UTG+2 ($161)
MP1 ($80)
CO ($80)
BTN ($212)

Dealt to Hero K♦ Q♣

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $6, SB calls $5, Hero raises to $28, BTN calls $22, SB calls $22

FLOP ($84) T♦ K♥ J♣

SB checks, Hero bets $40.50, BTN calls $40.50, SB folds

TURN ($165) T♦ K♥ J♣ 6♥

Hero bets $324 (AI), BTN calls $144 (AI)

RIVER ($453) T♦ K♥ J♣ 6♥ Q♦


12 replies
ttjjboy
Joined: 31.05.2009

what do u mean by over bet shove turn???


getdotacom
Joined: 06.04.2008

I like to call pre with this hand, we dominate most part of their hands. As played - Your 3bet sizing is too big IMO, we want him to call wide here and this waste of money if he 4bets us, $24 is much better. If we do so, we can bet 3/4 on the flop and shove turn, less than 1/2 on this flop sucks.


TetraQuark
Joined: 21.05.2008

ttjjboy, he didn`t overbet shove it.

Here I think sqz>fold>call. In fact I would call KQs if SB was a fish. KQo oop mwp, hard to play.

As played I have no idea. Sounds great, TP in 3b pot ... But vs this guy? His range is just so strog our KQ basically gets crushed. Plus there is SB left to act? Can we like c/f this flop?

Turn shove, I dunno, I guess we have the rightabout odds.

Waiting for Bierbaer to comment.


ttjjboy
Joined: 31.05.2009

sorry,
my mistake

I like the squeeze,usually I made it 4 times to the raiser and a little more while out of position,so 28 I think it's good

I'd bet more on flop,and also shove turn,nh

I'll go and check my glasses,lol


salflip
Joined: 02.10.2007

I'd prob flat pre although there is merit to 3b'ing, also depends whos in sb.
I think i might bet flop & c/f trn, seems nitty but were not getting much value on the trn imo. what kinda sample u have on villain? is it over a large sample? whats villains fvcb?

oops thought his stats were for sh, forget what i said


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Given that we shove 144 for a total pot of 453 and therefore need ~32% equity, I think the shove can't be all that bad.

First of all when he opens 40% and folds to resteals only 58%, his range is actually somewhat wide. 40% * 40% = 16%, even if it's tighter in this spot it might still be somewhere between 8%-12% so there's a lot of stuff he can have.
When he calls the flop with a player left to act he's either afraid to get it in with something like AA/AK, slowplaying AQ, or drawing with Qx.
So his range looks like this:
{QQ+, AQs+, KQs, QJs, JTs, AQo+, KQo}
I put in some 2pairs as well as one set in case he slowplays those occasionally.


Board: K♦J♥T♠ 6♥
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    72.16%  62.61%   9.54% { QQ+, AQs+, KQs, QJs, JTs, AQo+, KQo }
MP3    27.84%  18.30%   9.54% { KQo }

We still have ~28% equity against this range!
So since we have some FE the shove should be +EV.

The question is whether a check could be better, but I don't really like it too much:
He can potcontrol with Qx type hands and at the same time he might see foldequity and shove them in which case we make a mistake by folding.
Since the mistake we can make by shoving is very limited (unless he plays entirely different than his stats indicate, the shove is at least a be-play) and the pot is so big (i.e. we can make a huge mistake by folding) I'd like to take it down and therefore shove.

=> Nh imo.

P.S.: I think pre it is fine to squeeze, I'd also squeeze KQs for value vs this guy since he calls so much vs 3bets.


Shevtshenko
Joined: 06.12.2009

So his range looks like this:

{QQ+, AQs+, KQs, QJs, JTs, AQo+, KQo}

excuse me, how did you pull that one?! I don't think he's ~ever flatting QQ here, prly never KK+ either, he's not going to be having AK here... He seems a bit nitty so he might have JJ, certaily has AQ, KJs, JTs but that's all we're losing to. nh, wp.


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

He might either
a) be afraid to 4bet an get it in pre or
b) be trying to trap vs our potentially wide squeezingrange (i.e. he expects we'll bluff postflop).

Why do you think he's never flatting QQ, KK or AK IP?


Shevtshenko
Joined: 06.12.2009

Originally posted by Bierbaer
He might either
a) be afraid to 4bet an get it in pre or
b) be trying to trap vs our potentially wide squeezingrange (i.e. he expects we'll bluff postflop).

Why do you think he's never flatting QQ, KK or AK IP?

Mainly because it's three way preflop and if he just flats it's unlikely that sb is going to fold. I feel that most nits are thinking the way that "i don't wanna slowplay my KK because i don't wanna see an ace on the flop and not know what to do". And with QQ/AK here it's just bad to flat it even IP vs most ranges. Also the fact that regs usually squeeze with depolarized ranges means that he's more likely to get it in good when he 4bets. Ofc if hero's stats are like 10/9 which i highly doubt is the case here, villain might want to just flat QQ/AK here just because he's a nit and doesn't want to get in bad preflop.

and regards to b) what makes ppl nits and why they are easy to play vs. is that they play their strong hands fast almost always and pot control etc. with their medium strength range.

Also given how wide his ats is and how low his fold to resteal is, i think his range is way more weighted towards low/mid pockets and sc's preflop than QQ+/AK.


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Originally posted by Shevtshenko

Originally posted by Bierbaer
He might either
a) be afraid to 4bet an get it in pre or
b) be trying to trap vs our potentially wide squeezingrange (i.e. he expects we'll bluff postflop).

Why do you think he's never flatting QQ, KK or AK IP?

Mainly because it's three way preflop and if he just flats it's unlikely that sb is going to fold. I feel that most nits are thinking the way that "i don't wanna slowplay my KK because i don't wanna see an ace on the flop and not know what to do".
I see your point, but still this is your perception of his thinking process, it might be the other way around.

And with QQ/AK here it's just bad to flat it even IP vs most ranges.
Yep but he's playing 12/8 on a SH table which isn't too optimal either .
Also the fact that regs usually squeeze with depolarized ranges means that he's more likely to get it in good when he 4bets.
I really doubt he is thinking about our depolarized range...
Ofc if hero's stats are like 10/9 which i highly doubt is the case here, villain might want to just flat QQ/AK here just because he's a nit and doesn't want to get in bad preflop.

and regards to b) what makes ppl nits and why they are easy to play vs. is that they play their strong hands fast almost always and pot control etc. with their medium strength range.
Agree on this one.
However, the question is how a "medium hand is defined in his mind. Imo when a guy plays 12/8 there's a good chance he's afraid to get it in even with kings - so from this point of view it makes perfect sense for him to flat QQ, KK and AK.

Also given how wide his ats is and how low his fold to resteal is, i think his range is way more weighted towards low/mid pockets and sc's preflop than QQ+/AK.
True, there probably are a lot of those to his preflop-range. But I think he'd fold most of them on the flop facing 3 overs.


Shevtshenko
Joined: 06.12.2009

Yep but he's playing 12/8 on a SH table which isn't too optimal either

Wat?

It's fr. Does that change your perception of his range?


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Originally posted by Shevtshenko

Yep but he's playing 12/8 on a SH table which isn't too optimal either

Wat?

It's fr. Does that change your perception of his range?

Uh I think I just assumed it was a SH table in my last post, the others were written under the assumption that it's FR.

Still, the essentials are the same: afaik on FR tables people are even more afraid to get it in with holdings like QQ or AK preflop,so I can still see him just calling with those.


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