[Closed] 2 hands line check 5.5 2r1addon

AT OTHER TABLE

vilalin is loose agro monkey, he played a ton of hands spazing out vs almost every buddy
i dont know how he see me i think he 3 bet 1-2 of times and i open and got to give up on some hands post flop after i cbet or check fold, i dont realy remember, i think i get on this table like 3-4 orbits before this

PREFLOP
pre i was going to 4bet shove this hand if he 3bet me (cos he will 3bet light or monster imo)

FLOP
flop i'm expeting him to float 100% if i cbet and get me in dark about his range on turn so i decide that i gain more info with checking and floating him oop on flop

i'm expecting him to bet like 100% of his range here but i dont think that he has same sizing for all his hands => he fast bets small = imo to see were is at like most donks do - so i put his range to AIR (most likely) PP/ flush draws (less likely) /Tx/22

TURN
turn is brick i check again with intention to c/r fold cos his range is pretty much nuts or air if he bets (most likely air cos i think he will check draws pp on turn) so he bets fast again and i just min raise him and he quickly fold

if he checks my plan is to bet fold all J,Q,K,A check call 9 (maybe i check call K too to induce bluff from busted flush) and if is = J,Q,K,A on river,

thoughts?

PokerStars - $5+$0.50|500/1000 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: 113,424.00
UTG: 45,771.00
UTG+1: 24,777.00
MP: 16,823.00
MP+1: 44,569.00
Hero (LP): 35,182.00
CO: 66,096.00
BTN: 41,044.00
SB: 28,631.00

BB posts ante 125.00, UTG posts ante 125.00, UTG+1 posts ante 125.00, MP posts ante 125.00, MP+1 posts ante 125.00, Hero posts ante 125.00, CO posts ante 125.00, BTN posts ante 125.00, SB posts ante 125.00, SB posts SB 500.00, BB posts BB 1,000.00

Pre Flop: (2625.00) Hero has 9♥ K♥

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2,400.00, fold, BTN calls 2,400.00, fold, fold

Flop: (7425.00, 2 players) T♣ T♠ 2♠
Hero checks, BTN bets 2,000.00, Hero calls 2,000.00

Turn: (11425.00, 2 players) 6♦
Hero checks, BTN bets 5,712.00, Hero raises to 11,424.00, fold

Hero shows 9♥ K♥ (One Pair, Tens)
Hero wins 22,849.00

First hand line is making little sense - wud for sure put u on draw. Prolly gna call the 3bet and play it passively.

2nd hand tho i dnt necessarily like staging such an epic bluff and wud rather let him own myself - it at least makes a bit more sense. Tho if in any case he is remotely thinking ur polarizing urself quite a lot.

Originally posted by amplifyd
First hand line is making little sense - wud for sure put u on draw. Prolly gna call the 3bet and play it passively.

2nd hand tho i dnt necessarily like staging such an epic bluff and wud rather let him own myself - it at least makes a bit more sense. Tho if in any case he is remotely thinking ur polarizing urself quite a lot.

this is tl/dr

#2 hand he is also polarized, but imo he has more air then nuts tbh

#1 hand hmm really ...it makes no sence and u put me on draw?
i mean is ok to put me on draw but can you keep the presure on turn and river with any hand thats in villain range (i dont think he ever has jj there) i think he is super tough spot with those stack sizes and SPR once i reraise on flop
cos hand i have in the moment is like btn of my real range which is something like ac2c-ac5c, 66/99 J9s, 8c7c/Tc8c/TcQc/AcJc/JcXc/TcKc/Tc7c
but tbh i'll raise directly on flop when fish leads with all of those hands and raise preflop like most of broadway suted combos AcTc+

but again imo CO see me as bad lag donk and utg is bad lag so i'm expecting CO to raise like all the time on flop when action goes like that on flop and i can get info on how much utg likes his hand and play accordingly /improving my realtive position and closing or reopening the action

and cos imo CO is solid wining thinking player i know what range his got there and imo there isnt any hand in his value range that cant take pressure(3 barrels) on this kind of board cos almost every card is bad for his range but improving mine perceptive range (strongest hand that he can have there r 99/66 with 66 not beeing that strong and if he desides to play it pasivly on flop on most turns like 80%+ of cards (all :club:,5/6/7/8/9/J/T/Q/K) they became bluf cathers )
+ he doesnt know my real range and gives me more credit for m8 hands then draws, and if he realy thinks i'm a donk if he dont have JX (if he has 99/66) he can give me credit for set of JJ too + and cos i'm always drawing to nuts (ofcorse if board doesnt pairs) i can barrel any turn and river and get him in very tough spot

i mean my range there is monster combo flushstr8draws/ sets 99/66, J9s and nuts flushdraws - is true that is unliky that i have JJ in my real range here too and chances that i have 99/66 as played on flop i just call min lead from utg r 50%/50% but as i said imo CO dont know that cos imo he sees me as bad lag donk so imo my perceptive range leans towards made strong hands than draws when i reraise whis not true in this spot cos i'll play all of this hands fast on flap (draws + m8 hands) but cos i was very sure that after utg min bet co will raise or fold (and that will give me more info of utg hand/range and also i can narow CO range and put a ton of pressure on him if he wants to continue)

so say tldr then expect me to read that?

You never have 2pair or better when you just call the minbet on the flop, so you always have draws or spazzy bluffs.

Originally posted by amplifyd
so say tldr then expect me to read that?

yea obv u have some time to spare now when exams r over

Originally posted by goldchess
You never have 2pair or better when you just call the minbet on the flop, so you always have draws or spazzy bluffs.

yes i do, if read mine posts u'll see that there is some history going on and im expecting CO to raise or fold on flop (most likely raise after we show weaknes) and UTG really doesnt mater cos he is donk he ether likes his hand or dont and i use CO to define UTG hand (cos when donks min lead in those spots they ether shove when you raise or fold and his lead/shoving range would be something like AA/KK AJ/JJ/99/66)

and cos i have laggy donkey image i can represent m8 hands (2pairs+) vs CO

#1
its ok, i mean obv ur plan is to rep set, i think stack sizes are awkward, we wana be able to raise big enough to bet/call bt we don't wana rep a draw if tht makes sense. um personally i think i might flat in this spot rather than raise.

given tht u say u have shitty laggy donky aggro image, the raise isn't so good because, instead of perceiving ur range to be really nutty, it's going to end up looking super draw heavy, whereas ur flatting range is going to be much wider, and we can think about somewhere later on to take away the pot, like this 6 turn, given ur img, i wud defo c/r and like shove any riv or sth, i mean i think its a good turn for us, less combos of sets for him now, 6x could definitely be in our range, he might peel a worse draw etc.

i mean currently whats ur plan? bet/call turn or bet/fold? both are ugly as fuck imo.

also i think u r really incorrect on ur perceived range, asif u have hands like 66 99 JJ, maybe a hand like AJcc(lol sif u wudnt iso it so probs excluded) Jtcc/QJss/9Tcc etc. etc wud play this way but fuck off wud u call his minbet and come over the top with anything but a draw, u honestly think also that ur image helps u rep these hands? u almost turn ur hand faceup imo.

also the fact u have Ac doesn't rly make any difference since ur not making some bluff with a blocker ur making a semi-bluff with a big draw.

shitty laggy donky image = you dont know how to play ur hands, playing pasivly with big draws etc agro with m8 hands

just imagine how will super fish play sets here on flop call not wanting to scare any 1 out like traping on that terible board , then when CO raise and UTG fold fish will say of well guess CO has strong hand/draw so now i can reraise him cos trap work => when i have that kind of image i can rep m8 hand + also reping draws is default

we r not talking here how strong hand should be played on this flop we r talking how donk/fish will play his strong m8 hand (me in CO eyes) so with raisng we r reping strong m8 hands + draws

when CO dint shove on flop is obv that he dont have 99/JJ, he might have 66 and thats the very top of his range, and he have some kind of m8 hand or worse draw then we do => he dont really want to play for stacks there

6 on turn makes him having 66 very very unlikely so he is going to fold all hands when we bet

about having Ac4c = nuts draw that helps in a way that he cant have nuts draw if he shove flop,

i never said i was pure blufing i said that with my image i'm reping stronger range when i reraise that i actualy have in this spot leaning more toward m8 hands then draws and i can put a ton of presure on him (knowing that he never has a strong hand there)

and u dont realy want to play ~200bb pot in MTT with just top pair/btn set on that kind of board on flop

and btw there is no hand that u want to flat oop on that flop when CO raise and action cames back to you thats the bigest mistake u can do cos CO will own your as inp

shitty laggy donky image = you dont know how to play ur hands, playing pasivly with big draws etc agro with m8 hands

when u call this shitty minbet type thing, u so super rarely have a set, and when u spazz raise (this is what he will assume, spazz raise, given image) the only hands hes going to put u on are draws.

just imagine how will super fish play sets here on flop call not wanting to scare any 1 out like traping on that terible board , then when CO raise and UTG fold fish will say of well guess CO has strong hand/draw so now i can reraise him cos trap work => when i have that kind of image i can rep m8 hand + also reping draws is default

disagree u ever rep strong made hands here on this board texture in this spot.

we r not talking here how strong hand should be played on this flop we r talking how donk/fish will play his strong m8 hand (me in CO eyes) so with raisng we r reping strong m8 hands + draws

most fish will raise made hands, not do all this spastic shit, not on this board, they raise because they are scared of all the draws, man have u never been to a casino? "had to raise, cudnt call with all them draws out there", if it was a drier board u can think about this.

when CO dint shove on flop is obv that he dont have 99/JJ, he might have 66 and thats the very top of his range, and he have some kind of m8 hand or worse draw then we do => he dont really want to play for stacks there

99/JJ arn't in his range anyway.. he would have to be super bad to not raise pre. yes i agree his range can be somewhat capped, bt this doesn't merit raising because u rep many more draws urself, much better to float here and take it away later imo. + u have wider range in general and can rep many more cards.

6 on turn makes him having 66 very very unlikely so he is going to fold all hands when we bet

agree'd but on the turn he most likely doesn't have 66 anyway, u can take it out of his range when he calls the flop (like 90% of the time anyway), all u do is take more hands out of ur perceived range and make it even more so draw heavy. if u had called flop and say c/r'd turn, u would rep a 6 so much better. also i am super confident u are betting so many turns and not just a 6.

about having Ac4c = nuts draw that helps in a way that he cant have nuts draw if he shove flop,

yeah, exactly, so he is less likely to be shoving flop light, which means u either call and get in vs a much stronger range (if u dont have read he shoves like worse fd's ur committing suicide vs his range), or u fold and dont get to realise ur equity, of which u have alot, another reason why floating > raising

i never said i was pure blufing i said that with my image i'm reping stronger range when i reraise that i actualy have in this spot leaning more toward m8 hands then draws and i can put a ton of presure on him (knowing that he never has a strong hand there)

disagree, unless u have a read he shoves alot of shitter draws, then the fact u having nfd only makes his range stronger.

and btw there is no hand that u want to flat oop on that flop when CO raise and action cames back to you thats the bigest mistake u can do cos CO will own your as inp

lol. no flatting range in this spot? nice..

also CO can raise fold many worse draws than u tht have very little equity vs u but stackoff when u gin, u also have a little showdown value vs his range (altho u probably bluff later street often anyway) and the chance to take the pot away in a much more believable way later on.

@fusionpk
man r u MTT player or cash game player?

cost there is BIG difference how one would/should play a hand in cash vs MTT

i dont rly like intentionally trying to stackoff ~100bb with a draw when we don't rep much else, multiway, whether its MTT or cash..

just coz its mtt doesn't mean u have to get spazz aggro..

like top of ur flop raising range here is J9 & 66, which is a narrow range anyway, then given the fact that u call a minbet and just randomly 3b COs raise, u almost take these out of ur range, u just blow up ur range with draws..

Originally posted by fusionpk
i dont rly like intentionally trying to stackoff ~100bb with a draw when we don't rep much else, multiway, whether its MTT or cash..

just coz its mtt doesn't mean u have to get spazz aggro..

like top of ur flop raising range here is J9 & 66, which is a narrow range anyway, then given the fact that u call a minbet and just randomly 3b COs raise, u almost take these out of ur range, u just blow up ur range with draws..

so imo cash player,
oh well... lets say, all that u say is true (that my range is all draws)... u r in villain shoes .....r u going to call 3 barrels / happy to stack off with Jx vs me (vs range like, as u say 90%+ draws)?? even if board run like harmless 2h 3d and I shove river? or u r just lol shoving on flop

imo u r missing key concept here, is MTT = u cant reload if u stack off, and i'm playing vs villain perceptive range = which cant stand heat cos he never has strong enough hand to call 3 barrels or play for stacks on flop

if ur so confident in ur play, dont post the hand coz u clearly arn't willing to take on board anything anyone says. good Jx here is bluff catcher, so its not shoving flop its calling vs ur range which contains majority bluffs, why get Jx in vs some big combo draw when u can call and bluff catch bricks..

also the whether u look at it from cg or mtt point of view we r talking cEV here which is identical, yes u cant reload so yes we may assume more f/e bt we still make a move for stacks/repping for stacks later on in the hand if we float anyway so it becomes irrelevant, its also much better to realise ur equity somehow if u cant reload, rather than just getting it in on some random flip vs Jx on the flop.

I'm not reading all the above since it just looks like you both defending ur original points but - @bonebt it really does just look like you've spotantenously started to run this bluff just because you think you rep xxxx hands and because CO is deep with you. But imo you don't rep shit and anyone competent at handreading will just call u down imo anyway (i know i would with Jx here if flushdraws are bricking)

Pretty much the only merit I can see to this is rebluffing his semibluffs with the best risk:reward ratio pretty much.

Originally posted by amplifyd
I'm not reading all the above since it just looks like you both defending ur original points but - @bonebt it really does just look like you've spotantenously started to run this bluff just because you think you rep xxxx hands and because CO is deep with you. But imo you don't rep shit and anyone competent at handreading will just call u down imo anyway (i know i would with Jx here if flushdraws are bricking)

Pretty much the only merit I can see to this is rebluffing his semibluffs with the best risk:reward ratio pretty much.

Flop: (795.00, 5 players) 9♣ J♦ 6♣
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets 120.00, Hero calls 120.00, CO raises to 720.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2,040.00, CO calls 1,320.00

hmm, u r calling down light with Jx( x=what?) if flush dont hit?

what if 5,.7,8,T,Q,K,A hit? u r calling with only a pair of J?

[]-rep loads

ur play is obv going to be +EV because of the capped ranges and number of cards u can credibly barrel etc etc etc but imo its far from optimal since he will be shoving over ur raise super often with good Jx+ and calling u down lightly on bricks thx to ur super weak perceived range.

floating here just > raising imo. over & out.

FYP
would u

Originally posted by fusionpkshove over mine raise super often with good Jx+ and call me down lightly on bricks*

???

*which cards r bricks?? i can tell u like 30 cards from 45 left that r not bricks and improve mine perceptive weak range-> any 5,7,8,T,Q,K,A

imo the main thing here is that villain has weak range and cant stand pressure with his range (if he is not a sicko or mega donk) ... btw what strongest Jx that villain has in his range is like KJ... and as amplfyd says we r actually most often rebluffing his semibluffs with the best risk:reward ratio and if he happens that he has a made hand not a worse draw then ours he never has strong enough hand to get to showdown