Protection

hi Windar021

i don't think you really need to understand how to calculate EV etc at nl2.. i'm still really fuzzy with it at nl10 and don't really use it (although i probably should)..

the main thing to be clear about is exactly why you are protecting your hand, and more importantly what that means. obviously the main goal of protection is value. as long as you understand when and why to get value (in a way that also protects your hand) then i think that is the most important point to take away. as long as you are thinking in the right way then you don't necessarily need to understand the calculations.

just think about those people who are naturally 'gifted' poker players who just seem to have a feel for the game. they might think they don't understand the mathematics, but their thinking is much closer than normal to the mathematics behind their decisions, which means they end up playing better. so as long as you are thinking in the right way then you are probably going to be fine.

that said, you will eventually need to be able to calculate EV since there is no doubt it will improve a person's game a lot more than not knowing it. so yes, it is important to understand the calculations, but it isn't necessarily essential early on.

Lewis

Yes, the "touch and feel" is worth just as much as number crunching. But the very best players do know the math much better than they would admit. Poker is a mathematical game too after all. It's not only about some "sixth sense" telling when to pull off a big river bluff.

/Johan =

Protection and value overlap a fair amount, when you're betting for protection you have a hand that has value (TPTK, TPMK, set, 2p etc), basically betting to give your opponent incorrect odds to call but also extract maximum value against all draws.

now since ShaQQ mentioned TPTK, I got a situation yesterday w TPGK.. have KQ off BU raised got called by BB I guess flop was K35 no draw, I cbet ofcourse then got reraised allin.. I dont think this guy`s check raised make sense so went for it.. he got A10s and hit his A on the river... I think though I was correct that he has nothing here I guess its a bad call since there is no draw for him to shove w.. but still Im assuming he can still do it w PP that Im quite ahead w or maybe Kx, two pair or set aswell, I dont know.. lol player is unkown BTW only got like 5 hands on my stats..

Originally posted by windar021
now since ShaQQ mentioned TPTK, I got a situation yesterday w TPGK.. have KQ off BU raised got called by BB I guess flop was K35 no draw, I cbet ofcourse then got reraised allin.. I dont think this guy`s check raised make sense so went for it.. he got A10s and hit his A on the river... I think though I was correct that he has nothing here I guess its a bad call since there is no draw for him to shove w.. but still Im assuming he can still do it w PP that Im quite ahead w or maybe Kx, two pair or set aswell, I dont know.. lol player is unkown BTW only got like 5 hands on my stats..

Did he sit down 100BB?
What level is this?

Think I would snap this off regardless, looks too spewey.
What value hands is he going to c/ship it with?

Good call.

MD

ya it was 100BB or more and at 2NL? so my call is right? what If Im OOP and lets say he did not shove but just raised would bet/fold be better line? or bet/shove

Originally posted by windar021
ya it was 100BB or more and at 2NL? so my call is right? what If Im OOP and lets say he did not shove but just raised would bet/fold be better line? or bet/shove

Look at things from villains point of view.
Assume for a moment that he is behind in the hand, and he knows it.
If he calls down, or checks down, he loses his investment to this point.

If he shoves -- in this case a bluff -- he only needs to get you to fold some of the time for his move to be break even.
If you call, he will win some -- as in this case, if you fold he will win now.

You have to play against ranges, and against players.

Your call was not a bad call because you lost.
It may have been a bad call for other reasons.

I'm moving this thread to the NL Strategy board, where more people might see it and respond.