$60 6mx Turbo, bvb, 55 rivered set

I would check-fold turn. Versus some loose fishy type this is ok spot to just check-fold flop already. Ones that just wont fold to cbet. Problem with second barrel is that villain is rarely folding better made hand and he is likely calling many of draws. Also we dont have clear outs. Hitting 5 or 6 are both tricky.

As played my line would probably be bet to 300 (or bit less) and fold to raise. Second best choise would be to check-fold.

You really need to Cbet here? I think it is fine to c/f sometimes, and a 789 board BvB seems like a good spot to do just that.

As played, i c/f the turn, on the river it seems you are too short to b/f, so I would c/c and hope he bluffs something i guess

I dont think bet-fold is bad as if we get raised he has almost always straight, but we might get thin value from some weaker made hands. Especially if villain seems fishy.

If we go for bluff catch how big of bet are we calling? If he goes for small bet he might actually be value betting some strong two pair combinations. Nasty to call if he goes for big bet.

Originally posted by ghaleon
If we go for bluff catch how big of bet are we calling? If he goes for small bet he might actually be value betting some strong two pair combinations. Nasty to call if he goes for big bet.

I would love to go for a b/f, but having to bet like 300 on river means we are folding down to 600 chips, seems to shallow to b/f. If there were 8-900 left I would like it a lot more.

He is a random, so trying to figure out if he is betting for value or bluff is too much like reading tea leaves. I think a random could bluff shove enough times making a call fine. So not to waste time over thinking and "on the fence" spot I just check knowing Im going to call and hope Im right.

geez Tim, you make me work for my money. this is a tough spot.

stats on villain would be nice.

i agree with jax on the flop, dont think its a mandatory cbet. but i would cbet vs a tight-ish fish and c/f vs a loose guy. tight fish defend more high cards, loose guy hits this more often and will call cbet lighter (our hand has little playability if called on flop)

your turn barrel is SO thin. once again, stats would really help sway me in this spot. I think the standard is to c/f regardless of timing tells. If I did decide to bet I prefer 250.

as played, vs an aggro fish c/c looks attractive. vs your standard passive fish i guess I take a thin value-bet less than a shove (i just dont think he can call a shove unless he is a big drooler). if i thin v bet 300 and he jams we have to fold regardless of pot odds (i cant see any hand we beat in that scenario).

Pot odds is not the direct reason I feel a little compelled to call a raise on the river, but the playability of the stack I leave myself. I guess 10bb is fine, 600 sounds much less. At what point do you consider yourself too shallow to b/f river when draw hits?

so we have 950 on the river?

with 950 behind i bet/fold 400

with 600 behind I would just shove.

the difference is I dont think he can call full pot, but I think he can call half pot or a bit more. Hence, I would leave myself somewhere between 500-600 chips at the minimum.

No stats so can't help there...

I decided on the river that ch/c was not ideal since he ch/b all his showdown stuff and only bets 6x. So I'm neg freerolling vs a 6.

In terms of his range, I think he can maybe sigh call off with 9T/8T or s/thing. I think he raises a str8/2pair before now so it's only 6x that im worried about being behind.

I was thinking that hands like Tx make much more sense for call/call line than 6x because he's drawing to the nuts, so i don't think he has that many 6x compared to all the other stuff that might hero.

It's obv gross OTR, b/c betfolding 300/400 leaves so little behind that I think ch/f would be better since we at least have a playable stack that way. So although I agree that it's tough for a non-drooler to call pot with worse, practically I'm inclined to agree with Jax that b/f for less is somehow unattractive.

Turn is interesting. I think I'm just trying to fold out his floats cos ch/f vs random QT/QJ is annoying (overally ch/f seems better I guess). But I agree that if we bet we should be bigger. Incidentally, by betting bigger I think we might narrow his river range more to pairs (on basis he folds more draws to a bigger turn barrel) so a shove becomes clearer since he has even less 6x and he gets better odds to hero 9x etc.

Anyway, I shoved and he folded. Not sure that proves anything but thanks for all the feedback. SnG forum rulezz.