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floaty
Joined: 13.04.2010

both players are fairly taggy/lagtag. UTG does call down an awful lot... so perhaps im correct in not betting. The question was should i bet the turn here hoping to fold out weaker A-high/k-high hands, both players seem to be on overcards atleast and I dont have any sd value with the hand... but getting two players to fold here?

PokerStars - $1/$2 (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $56.95
UTG: $44.00
Hero (CO): $25.50
BTN: $48.13
SB: $134.95

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has Q♦ J♦

UTG raises to $2.00, Hero raises to $3.00, fold, fold, BB calls $2.00, UTG calls $1.00

Flop: ($9.50, 3 players) 7♥ 2♣ 3♦
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.00, BB calls $1.00, UTG calls $1.00

Turn: ($12.50, 3 players) 5♠
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($12.50, 3 players) 5♥
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

Spoiler

BB shows K♥ J♥ (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 31%, Flop 24%, Turn 12%)
UTG shows A♠ T♠ (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 45%, Flop 60%, Turn 81%)
Hero mucks Q♦ J♦ (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 23%, Flop 16%, Turn 7%)UTG wins $12.00


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2 replies

vs 2 check/calls on flop and given the preflop action we are of course looking at many over card combinations, and sometimes passively played (and usually marginal) overpairs.

The BB's decision to cold-call 3 looks fishy. There are options here.

In general, with Q-high I think we can consider barrelling blank turns. Marginal A-highs will probably fold (typically the open raisers range if hes TAG).

On this turn card, EVERY A-high has a GSSD and overs (or better). They will be much more likely to call your turn bet. This means our decision to continue betting will almost certainly include a river barrel. This makes our bluff expensive.

If you had bet the turn I would usually expect 1 or 2 calls (and often 2 calls). Because they tend to call much more with weak hands we need to barrel rivers more unimproved. This (as mentioned) is expensive. We need to be increasingly certain that our opponents will fold when our cost increases.

I don't mind your decision to give up on the turn because its not so uncommon to be up against a fish in the BB who could call down A-high or a passively played pocket pair. If the turn is a blank THEN, we can get the initial raiser to fold A-highs more often. This makes it easier for us to bet again since sometimes the BB will fold as well.

Once you do check back that turn card, its much more difficult to represent hands. As a bluff its hard to balance. I think this is an interesting turn spot where people are not checking back hands they intend to value bet without improvement on the river. This river doesn't improve many hands.


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Dawnfall26
Joined: 30.07.2008

Hi!

I would say I dont like this play because....

First...3betting preflop is clearly not for value since we are behind against Taggy MP2 OR range,so I guess its for deception,my default would be to fold here I see no reason to play such hand vs decent oponent. But if we do decide to play it we are obliged to make some plays since we are going to be loking at so many Ahigh combos and also since this is one of very few bluffy hands in our range.

second...with all this in mind I dont think that bet F,check turn is an option.I actually wouldnt really mind just checking flop since basically none hand will fold here. But if we do bet we have to bet the turn to make Khigh to fold and actually Im looking to 3barrel here if other guy folds.Good player will put you on a very strong hand here and you can easily make some Ahigh to fold.Appart from that you only have value hands in your range.


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