0,5/1 AJ v CO laggy guy

Hi kavboj ... I don't like your line here. His range is very wide from BU and he can have there many draws (flsh, str), few Jx, some lower made hands, overpairs and some value hands too (but for sure it's not a majority of his range), blufs also.

I don't want to give him a chance to take free cards on turn and river that's why I play there donk on turn. In case of raise I prefer to calldown (unless I have a good read). From time to time I'm behind and my line is more variance but I think is more EV+ than just calldown. If you play x and I have only draws, overcards, low pairs I never play second barrel here. This board is very wet for me as your opponent.

Nice hand you played it perfectly

I don't think putting in another raise on the turn makes much sense as with his 3-bet he pretty much narrows his range to Queens and draws, neither of which it makes sense to put in extra action vs

You cannot EVER fold this hand the way the board has come, in fact you probably can't fold it not matter how the board comes unless it's running spades or something. Just from an exploitative point of view there are 10 million draws on this board KT, T9, T8, 89, K9, Spades etc and they ALL bricked by the river and there's even a small possibility he's 3-betting for value with worse like KsJs or something similar.

X/R on the flop is 100% standard vs anyone and especailly vs a SD bound Spewy LAG it's even more correct. His Flop C-bet may be low but he may be checking back multi-way causing a lower number, it's still high enough and x/r is perfectly fine.

I don't like donking the turn here at all because you're putting your opponent on an unrealistic and unbalanced range. If he does 3-bet and take a free card then take a note on him and adapt accordingly, don't just assume he's trying to take a free card. If we're calling 100% of our range from the BB here we're not actually that high up in our range, we have the bluff-catcher part of our range vs his flop 3-bet so play it as such.

If worth noting he didn't call flop/raise turn with what's a monster hand on a board where his hand can very quickly lose value so that may be a note to take indicating his turn raising range may either be:

1) Bluff heavy
2) "I caught something" heavy

Hi hairysnake,

im surprised to hear this from you. He is not a freecarder if I see somebody raising IP and xb-ing on the turn I immediately put it down to my notes and I have a decent sample on him so I can suppose this for quite sure.
And even if he was a freecarder I think caping top pair good kicker+ and calling down with the rest is a better option, cause you expose your weak turn range to a raise on a big bet street with a donk. Also if he checks back on the turn his hand becomes face up or if he bets I know he has improved or holds something strong, so he only provides me with the information I need with that play. And with the blank four on the turn it would be also face up that the donk is an anti-freecard play. And If you suppose he is a freecarder, you should have folded the turn, cause he didnt take a freecard, which means he has a strong made hand.

Also I dont think he has too many draws in his b3b flop range KT:spade:, T9:spade: maybe, but I have not seen seen him going mad with FD-s and OESD-s, I think he would just call my x/r unless he has a combo draw. Note that he is not so agressive postflop ( his AF is only 1,4 )

Originally posted by kavboj84
Also I dont think he has too many draws in his b3b flop range KT:spade:, T9:spade: maybe, but I have not seen seen him going mad with FD-s and OESD-s, I think he would just call my x/r unless he has a combo draw. Note that he is not so agressive postflop ( his AF is only 1,4 )

That's possible but I still don't think we have anything like the information we will need to fold here

If you had J6s or a hand such as that I could be persuaded that letting go was fine as it's probably our worst value x/r hand on the flop (even then some of our draws will pick up 4's and 7's on the turn and river so really folding any J here could be incorrect) but I'm pretty sure you'll be over-folding by a long way if you fold AJ here, especially when the board bricks out.

If you have a concrete read that he only has 2 combos of bluffs in his flop 3-betting range then obviously you fold but if you're at all unsure or you think his range is close to balanced for 3-betting and barrelling you can't fold period.

Hey Boomer,

thanks for your post.

His Flop C-bet may be low but he may be checking back multi-way causing a lower number, it's still high enough and x/r is perfectly fine.

Well I asked this because Im more afraid of loosing value against him than him c-betting with a strong range only. Not on this board, but what if a wet low,low,low board comes up, and he checks back weak Ax-s ?

we're not actually that high up in our range, we have the bluff-catcher part of our range vs his flop 3-bet so play it as such.

See that was exactly my initial thought, but I wasnt sure after I reviewed the hand. Do I really have the odds to call down if he b3b-s only monster draws and top pair good kicker+ ? I think the chance that he has a worse Jx in his range is very small cause his AF is not that high. And I also have Q7s,Q8-QT in my range which im playing the same way.
Also I'd like to know how your flop x/r/call and your x/r/cap range looks like, becase I play x/r/call with several draws here, and if I hit my draw on the turn I'd like to x/r. Now the problem is that if my turn x/r range contains only value hands that have improved my opponent can spot this, and he also could realize that when I cap the flop I already have a strong made hand. Would it make sense to delay some made hands to the turn ? Like.. I dunno ..2pairs,set, or you just cap everything on the flop ?

If worth noting he didn't call flop/raise turn with what's a monster hand on a board where his hand can very quickly lose value

Umm..what do you mean by loosing value here ? That a draw completes on the turn and I may not continue barreling ? Why is it then so bad for him to fast play ?
Also Im not sure that he wouldnt delay 2pair + here just because he raises a top pair with a good kicker.
But if you were in his shoes would you play call flop-raise turn here ? What happens if a turn is a scarecard for you (every spade + every broadway+9) ?

To answer your question it's very rare I 3-bet in position on the flop because, as you've shown here, it's actually pretty hard to balance without spewing and I prefer to try and keep my ranges wide in situations where I feel I can outplay my opponent, plus being in position means that my opponent can't check through and I can keep a balanced raising range on the turn and put a lot of pressure on what can be a weak x/r range in this particular scenario (Button vs Blind)

I worded it wrong by saying "loosing value". That board is a heavy "equity change" board. Pairs and draws on that board will often be close in equity on the flop and it's usually the turn card which causes a big shift in the equity of the hand. In this case it would allow me to control the turn action based on cards I thought were better for my range than my opponent's x/r range, so yes, sometimes I'd back off and not raise the turn, most of the time I still will (i.e. it'd need something like 9 or J to fall on the turn for me not to raise) but it gives me the option to back off and also hides the times I'm holding a monster.

Out of position it's a little different story and I will bet/3-bet more often because now my opponent has more options open to him on the turn. In position it's pretty rare someone x/r's the flop then donk checks the turn (even though it should be part of a balanced strategy, certainly on some boards)

If he 3-bets only monster draws and Top Pair+, you can obviously fold because there are 2 combos of OESFD's and there are 24 combos of Top Pair overcard kicker, 3 combos of each set, 6 combos of each overpair and 9 combos of each 2 pair so vs a range that's literally <5% draws and of which those draws are either flipping a coin or beating you in equity you can probably fold everything that isn't KQ+ but I find it incredibly unlikely any half decent player will have a bet/3-bet range weighted this badly

Originally posted by kavboj84
Hi hairysnake,

im surprised to hear this from you. He is not a freecarder if I see somebody raising IP and xb-ing on the turn I immediately put it down to my notes and I have a decent sample on him so I can suppose this for quite sure. ...

Kovboj everybody makes mistakes I'm not an exceptional but I've learnt somenthing today .. tanks guys.

Thanks boomer, just let me ask a last question about dynamic boards and delaying play.

If I know that someone is a 'delayer' -the way I call those who have no or very narrow b3bF range - I do x/c or x/r the turn OOP quite a lot, because I know that his range is wider than I expect plus he will bet the turn anyway most of the time and it lets me to control the pot size not allowing him to raise me if a raise would be awkward for me, and also to bluff/rebluff and get more value out of my strong hands against which he would just play call turn if the turn is a scarecard for him.

Dont you think that if someone plays like this, that makes some type of an adaption to your delaying play the one who will lose value will be yourself ? Sounds weird but to me it looks so that if your main goal is to control the potsize then in this case I think that b3b-ing the flop and taking a freecard on inconvenient turns may be a better way.

You should definitely have a x/r and x/c range on the turn against these players, especailly on cards which smack their range. Though if they bet the turn vs your check as balanced as they raise your continuation bet then you're not really exploiting them but it's definitely a good thing you're thinking about these things

It's just one of the sucky things about being out of position, because if your opponent isn't a "bet when checked to" idiot he can get to see the turn and river for 1SB when you x/r so sure he loses a tiny bit of value with his big hands (he still gets 3BB postflop) he can gain a lot with the weaker parts of his range, especailly those that want freebies (where he sees the river for 1BB and then makes a decision)

Just remember that when you make an exploitative adjustment they may make one back, i.e. 3-betting the flop or adjusting their betting range on the turn, and cause a levelling war.

If you can bet/3-bet the flop balanced in position there's very little wrong with this but you have to be aware of how much it narrows your range, allowing your opponent to play more correctly on turn and river cards.