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AQo, sb, in vacuum

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It is a pretty frequent spot, unless you violate rooms rules, using mining. So I think it is a pretty crucial situation affecting winrate.

The opponent was absolutely unknown - about 42/17/8 hands. It still can be a regular player.

The questions are:
How to play preflop in a such spot?
What to do on the postlop?
Should we cbet in a such spot if we are not ready to stack off in 3bet-pot with tptk?

NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
Hero ($26.17)
BB ($26.73)
UTG ($9.43)
CO ($23.70)
BTN ($25)

Dealt to Hero A♦ Q♣

fold, CO raises to $0.75, fold, Hero raises to $2.75, fold, CO calls $2

FLOP ($5.75) A♠ K♥ J♦

Hero bets $2.50, CO raises to $5, Hero folds


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9 replies
cutegoldfish
Joined: 19.11.2009

pre flop - with a good hand in SB and BB not being a huge fish the best move is to 3bet for value against a fish.

flop - this board hits the braodway ranges harder than it hit us. if we were playing against someone like 25/22 i prefer taking a more passive line to check/call since it hits him more. against someone 42/17 i think betting is a better option, since he has a wider range. when he raises though i think its usually a strong hand, they dont usually bluffraise on such boards after getting 3betted pre flop. but we have the odds to draw to hit trip A and T for straight given his small sizing we have a call.


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You suggested to call oop this raise to hit A or T and didn't say how to play later streets?
Ace will not give us confidence in hand strength, T will not give value because board will be too scary even for very lose fishes.
What to do on blank turns? I'm pretty sure, anyone today will continue barreling with bluff, especially if he is a fish.
And how to play with hit? Do you suggest donkbetting? How do you propose to balance it? Or mb you want to check-push - it will be sick in my opinion.
How to play paired Kings or Jacks? Or even Queen on the turn.

And also you completely ignored my question:

Should we cbet in a such spot if we are not ready to stack off in 3bet-pot with tptk?


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cutegoldfish
Joined: 19.11.2009

we call this because we believe we are not always behind and could improve to a straight, and its tough to play oop on later streets.

on blank turns i dont expect him to keep barreling bluffs so ill fold our hand. if we hit a straight, do you think he continues to bet his 2p? probably not but he may not be willing to give it up so ill donkbet into him when we hit.

check pushing is very strong and i think although he a fish hes going to fold a set/2p there.

for Queen, hes unlikely to keep betting 2p/set when there is a 1 card straight on board so ill check/fold the hand unless its a small bet and we have odds for the full house.

for K and J, its a blank, doesnt change anything, if he has 2p hes ahead, if he has set he improved to a full house and if he has a draw its still a draw. maybe KT or JQ tripped up but i doubt hes actually raising those hands on the flop.

and for this question - Should we cbet in a such spot if we are not ready to stack off in 3bet-pot with tptk?

against this opponent i prefer betting, because i expect his range to be wide, i expect him to have a wide range of hands that could call including Ax Kx Qx Jx Tx . but i would not stack off against him because hes usually passive and call most of his hands and only raising the stronger ones which would be 2p/set +.

however against another tighter opponent, whose range looks like AT+ KT+ 99+ (about 15-20% VPIP and PFR) then i prefer checking this hand because we are not far ahead and the board hits him and we dont have 3 streets of value and are not ready to stack off in a 3betpot.


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He is unknown 42/17 but only with 8 hands sample. Stats here are nothing, we can't treat him like a fish.

And the pot is really too big now after calling flop, so every our decision is too expensive especially with unknown. That's why I've posted the hand.
1) I doubt in preflop 3bet.
2) I doubt in bet-calling flop.

we call this because we believe we are not always behind and could improve to a straight[

I can't agree with this.

Raise on the flop is a strength. We beat actually random bluffs and AT. I am not ready to stack here because I don't have any information, that's why I fold the flop. Every decision on later street will be too expensive for us. And really I don't think pot odds here matter something.

I have 3betted preflop with intention to stack with tptk, but not on a such bad board. Mb if he calls me postflop I would bet-bet-bet, but after the raise I think we are behind always.


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cutegoldfish
Joined: 19.11.2009

8 hands are not much but the wide different between his calling and raising range tells us hes a fish.

if we were in BB calling could be better if we close the action but in the SB we either fold to 3bet this hand since we want to play a heads up pot with initative with a hand ahead of his range and not multiway with BB without initiative.

flop play is questionable, he could already be ahead, if the raise was bigger say 8 dollars then its a clear fold but the sizing is small so we could possibly find a call since we might have odds to draw, i could be wrong here. folding is fine too. imagine you made a 25cents bet and he minraised to 50 cents, would you call? when is the limit where you would fold? 75 cents? 3 dollars? 5 dollars?

the flop call is not to stack off, its to draw for our outs for the straight and trip A and possibly him checking back turns and rivers and we get a showdown.

thread opened for another judge to comment.


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EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

Hey guys,

Since he is unknown for what we see we have to play somewhat of an average game like against the average opponent at this stake. In my opinion, checking flop is best and after betting for value it's a fold.

I say this because the flop is perceived to have hit our range very well which it actually does so we get many folds, rarely our opponent has a wide calling range on the flop. We also don;t miss value against Ax since that calls twice after the check anyway and would fold to a 3 barrel.

Given a tough spot to get called in, most likely raise means super strong. Although it's a minraise and we get good odds, we are OOP and can be drawing to split as well so our equity is low plus being OOP makes it even harder to realise.

Hope it helps!


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

hi

8 hands doesn't tell us much but it's likelier that he's a fish. he also doesn't have a full stack so I'm 80% sure he is a fish.

Preflop: I think the 3b is standard vs someone who seems like a fish

Flop: I think it's close here between a fold and a call. I agree with cutegoldfish's points about us having the best hand sometimes (pretty often I see some random fish raise A8 here and check Turn or weakbet Turn) and also having some outs to the gushot so I have a slight preference for calling the raise.

The ace is not a clean out vs most hands but it could improve your AQ to beat bottom two-pairs - Not too great of an out but just wanted to point out this small detail.


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

I also agree with CGF's comments about betting vs checking as well. I bet vs this guy and c/c vs a TAG/LAG. I'm going for 3 streets here when I bet, but I'll bet on the smaller side on Turn and River to keep villain's calling range wide. I do think this guy can have any AX in his PF range.

Would bet/fold vs a larger raise but vs this min-raise i think you have to call due to pot odds


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mbml, cutegoldfish, ty guys.


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